[wybiral]

> This is our one chance to kill javascript; if we don't do it now, it'll be entrenched forever, and best we'll ever get is 'compiles-to-js' languages like clojurescript and typescript.

Do people really hate JavaScript that much? I've grown fond of it in recent years, especially after ES6.

[zaphar]

I really do hate javascript that much. It was somewhat acceptable when it was confined to the browser for simple scripting. But the more complicated the application and the more it moves out of the browser the more it's flaws get magnified.

[bluejekyll]

Yes. People really hate JavaScript that much. ES6 brought some sanity to the language, but I continue to be firmly in the camp of continuing to hate and despise its existence.

[wybiral]

Weird. I remember hating it ages ago. So much so that I was developing a Python->JavaScript transpiler (before all the cool kids were writing transpilers!) and blogging about how bad it was [1].

Granted, that was back in 2008 and most of my complaints have been addressed now almost a decade later (except for destructors, it still doesn't have those, but I also don't need them anymore).

These days I move between JavaScript, Python, Go, and C seamlessly and I can honestly say that I don't hate any of them as much as clients, managers, and 3rd party code.

[1] http://davywybiral.blogspot.com/2008/01/javascript-bad.html

[bluejekyll]

People have definitely had and continue to have successful careers in, and many actually enjoy, JS.

I would never debate that. I think language choice for many people is a personal decision. There are some that I will hold my nose and use; not even complain too much. There are others that the minute there is an alternative to, I would use that instead. JS is in the latter camp for me.

If it helps, my current favorite language is Rust... they may be syntactically similar, but I just can't stand the semantics, or lack there of, of JS.

[irrational]

This could be said for any language.

Yes. People really hate C that much. C++ brought some sanity to the language, but I continue to be firmly in the camp of continuing to hate and despise its existence.

[algesten]

It's a bit different. For system level programming you have a choice to get around C/C++.

For browser programming, or full stack in a single language, you have less choice, and none if you reject transpiling.

[bluejekyll]

Right, with JS there's almost no choice. C/C++ I actually really like, but I fear the great harm that I can inflict upon myself and others with them.

Anyway, the nouns are important.

[scriptproof]

These people are probably over represented here else things like Node.js, Electron would have never existed - and be successful.

[bluejekyll]

Electron is awesome. And with webassembly, I think electron will be even better. Electrons success is because it offers a single Dev experience across all major platforms, windows, macOS, Linux and the web.

It's a great container for reducing the work to deliver code across platforms.

JavaScript is a necessary evil right now; it's the least common denominator for delivery. I would probably choose typescript if I were starting a new app right now to target it, though I want to play with Rust and webassembly soon.

It's success is not bc of JavaScript; it's because it merges the cross platform Dev experience.

[petre]

I don't hate JS but would rather write my web codebase in something else, something that has a standard lib for instance. ES6 is also a transpile to JS language on the browser. The main problem is that we are stuck with ancient JS on the browser and WASM could fix that. Wouldn't you rather conpile ES6 to WASM instead of JS?

[ZenPsycho]

browsers that support WASM will support ES6 natively. compiling ES6 to WASM would not be a good idea, since you would have to send a garbage collector and full dynamic language runtime down the pipe instead of just using the one in the browser.

wouldn't you rather just run ES6 right in the browser instead of compiling it first at all?

[petre]

If all major browsers support 100% of the spec and every implementation is bug to bug compatible with the others, yes, I would rather run ES6 directly in the browser. The problem is fragmentation and not supporting the whole spec -- some functions working in Firefox and Chrome and not implemented in IE/Edge or Safari.

[Klathmon]

Has any runtime anywhere had 100% compatibility with anything ever?

[themihai]

The lack of choice has to be hated. Some hate JS just for that.

[pjmlp]

Not everyone can use ES6 or transpilers.

For example, on the type of projects I work on, all tooling is certified by customers IT and anything extra requires change request, that might get approved, or not.

[tonyedgecombe]

I don't hate it, I just don't find it as productive as the server side language I use.

[bobwaycott]

Absolutely