Ask HN: What to do when you're denied to every New Grad position?

[EugeneFedotov]

I have been absolutely denied from all new grad positions.

What do I get interviews for? 2+ years of experience and startup positions. What's so bad about that? These companies try to pay you the lowest, while trying to get you to do everything.

One example of a current company I'm interviewing with:

Retail company making at least $1 billion. Associate Developer. I have an interview with the hiring manager, and I have to somehow convince him that I'm the right choice for a $40k position that requires 2 years of experience in Hoboken, NJ (that's about 10 minutes away from NYC, for your information).

What else is aggravating? One day it's ASP.NET interview, next day it's NodeJS interview, next day it's database + C# interview, then back to developing an API in NodeJS, then Ruby, then Python. These aren't even new grad positions. How in the hell am I supposed to know everything? Practically no one asks algorithm or data structure questions.

Finally, sometimes I even pass HackerRanks, but those end up being rejections, and sometimes companies don't even pay for airplane + hotel, so I don't go because I can't afford.

[staunch]

You may want to specialize. Not many companies hire "Programmers". They mostly hire "$LANG Programmers" but that's fine because you can learn many values of $LANG.

So if you want an ASP.NET, NodeJS, or C# job then learn ASP.NET, NodeJS, or C#.

The trick is to specialize in something you're actually excited about, so that you can become proficient.

1. Learn ASP.NET (build projects, do free work, whatever).

2. Change your resume to say "ASP.NET Programmer".

3. Apply for ASP.NET jobs.

4. Ace ASP.NET interviews.

[EugeneFedotov]

I have no idea what I like besides being a competent developer. All I know is I want to work on interesting stuff, with competent and great people, and for a company who cares about their employees and understands that developers are not worth $19/hr (less than my barber).

[isuckatcoding]

> Hoboken

> $1 billion

Definitely jet.com

I'd suggest removing that information in case your interviewer becomes aware of this thread

Also 40k is really low even for a new grad. Look elsewhere. Also don't apply to new grad jobs (nor should you present yourself as a new grad even if you are).

[EugeneFedotov]

Sorry, it's not Jet. The company was The Children's Place (I should've said right by Hoboken, but was trying not to out them). Jet is actually a much greater company, and I have previously interviewed with them.

[isuckatcoding]

Ah ok. Guess there are other big hoboken companies. Haha

[JSeymourATL]

Focus on Old School networking, actually go out and meet people.

Here's a Hoboken Tech Meetup, good place to start > https://www.meetup.com/njtech/

[EugeneFedotov]

I've been a part of that meetup. I actually volunteered at Propeller, and know Aaron Price well.

[magic_beans]

New York has TONS of options for you. Don't despair! Take a look at http://www.builtinnyc.com/. You might also consider working with a recruiter.

[JCDenton2052]

When you're going through hell, keep going.

[magic_beans]

Also: DO NOT WORK FOR A RETAIL COMPANY. I'm a front end dev and worked for half a miserable year as an "Associate Developer". The pay was horrible and I quit as soon as possible.

[EugeneFedotov]

Yeah, the $40k/year company I mentioned is a retail company. They did seem terrible based on how the interview went.

[entreprenewb]

You may want to use a recruiter (or several); they will get a commission from the company where they place you and can work on finding you a job at the same time you are looking on your own. However, they will not always be looking out for your best interest overall though, so make sure to hold fast on anything that is non-negotiable for you.

Also, consider applying to positions that aren't looking for software developers specifically to get your foot in the door. There are many technical positions that can involve software engineering, like QA, application support, IT, devops, helpdesk etc. A lot of these positions that need "bodies", but are good stepping stones for entry level positions.

+1 to networking, though user groups for a given technology (e.g. .Net user groups) might be better than "networking" events which can be a lot of false leads.

And on your resume (saw it looking at your comment history): * Include an introductory objective sentence or two at the beginning (I'm so-and-so interested in...seeking such kind of work). * You may want to have a skills section with bullets of your skills, a lot easier for recruiters and hiring managers to quickly read * Create multiple version of your resumes for different positions you apply for. E.g. Something that's more tailored for frontend and another tailored for backend. You may even just want a few versions that are organized differently to do some A/B testing. * Are you writing cover letters? I'm not sure how much weight they carry these days (I can't say I've seen any from candidates in a long time) but really anything that sets you apart won't hurt. * You may also want to create a public Github repo with representative samples of your work. * The mygoldanimals.com URL in your resume doesn't work, you may want to indicate that it's no longer maintained.

Good luck!

[EugeneFedotov]

Recruiters say I lack experience. I have interviewed with Robert Half Technology, Addison Group, and Talener.

I have been rejected from QA. The interviewer was not convinced that I would be interested enough, since most people don't go dev -> QA (I had a 2 month developer contract at a startup).

I have multiple versions of my resume. I actually paid a service called ResumeRaiders, where they wrote an objective. I've received lots of negative feedback from that.

I have a Github full of small projects (ASP.NET site, API, AngularJS, various JS programs, etc.), but I felt it did more harm leaving it on my resume.

mygoldanimals.com hosting is paid by the client. It was working last month. If you do a Google search, you should see it's an actual business. I'm not sure what's going on with that, especially since the shared host provider has been bad over the year. It's unfortunate that it's currently not working.

[Blackstone4]

Keep your head up!

Desperation reeks....so you want to get far away from this.

For one moment put aside the technical aspects and focus on your confidence, communication and the message you send when in an interview.

Watch Amy Cuddy's TED talk on Power posing. Do that before all your interviews! It works for me.

Focus on building a relationship with your interviewers. So that means small talk and asking how are you? How do you find working for this company? etc.

[Blackstone4]

To add to that... people hire people. Someone they can see themselves hanging out with

[snowcrshd]

I understand where you are coming from.

Even though it sucks to get rejected, try to see these experiences in a positive light: at least you got some practice interviewing, got some more insight regarding what companies are looking for, etc.

I'm _relatively_ newly grad too (graduated on Jan/2016) and I obviously don't have all that experience we see in job postings. So I try to learn some stuff on the side.

The NodeJS hype train is pretty big right now, so this is an example of a technology you could learn on the side.

> sometimes companies don't even pay for airplane + hotel

Yeah, this sucks. Been there. I'd say borrow some money from people close to you if you have a good feeling about the interview.

Also, have you considered applying for one of the big 4? If you know somebody who works there, ask them to give you a recommendation. This is a good way to increase your chances of getting an interview. These companies generally pay for your trip. And since you are fresh out of college your algorithms + data structures knowledge should be pretty fresh, this might give you a hand.

[EugeneFedotov]

I had a 2 month NodeJS contract. I'd say I'm one of the most overconfident yet realistic people you'll meet. I will do my best to do whatever you need.

I'm actually not "fresh" out of college. I graduated in May 2015. I did take an assessment for Amazon back then and failed it. I did get referrals recently to retry at Amazon, but I no longer get accepted. I also spoke to a Google recruiter and they won't let me interview unless I have at least 6 months of experience.

[codegeek]

$40K is low for entry level programming jobs in the tri-state area (NY/NJ/CT). If you have 2+ years of experience, you should definitely ask for more but I of course don't know your current situation.

If you are having trouble getting hired, look at your experience so far and focus on being a "specialist" of some sort. For example, don't apply to any random programming job. Pick a couple of areas which could either include specific languages/frameworks (node etc) OR a domain (finance, retail etc). You need to be good at one of those areas.

[EugeneFedotov]

I definitely do not have even 1 year of experience. God, it's so hard being a specialist when you don't even know what you want as someone with barely any experience. I did NodeJS for two months for a contract.

[sikan]

Just keep doing nodejs. It pays well to be a competent javascript dev

[markwaldron]

Get on Angellist and just keep applying. You can make much more than 40k a year in NYC as a junior dev.

[muninn_]

Move to the Great Lakes Region. Work at a hospital or something.

[TheOneTrueKyle]

I have been looking for a developer position since 2013. I am still looking. I currently work as a test Engineer and have a steady income, but life is genuinely getting worse and worse as time goes by.

Contrast that with blog posts of 20 somethings telling you how to be happy and be productive on medium as they enjoy their Facebook job is quite frustrating and can make things worse.

I am starting to build a brand in the hopes that I can make something out of it and never have to worry about finding a development job.

Besides not listening to people on the interwebs, I don't really have any advice. Just wanted to let you know that you are not alone.

[crispytx]

Start a startup.

[fuckdang]

I have been looking for a developer position since 2013. I am still looking. I currently work as a test Engineer and have a steady income, but life is genuinely getting worse and worse as time goes by.

Contrast that with blog posts of 20 somethings telling you how to be happy and be productive on medium as they enjoy their Facebook job is quite frustrating and can make things worse. On top of that, I get banned here for trying to get real questions while other hide behind logic so I don't ever really get advice and guidance from people.

I am starting to build a brand in the hopes that I can make something out of it and never have to worry about finding a development job.

Besides not listening to people on the interwebs, I don't really have any advice. Just wanted to let you know that you are not alone.

[HeyLaughingBoy]

What kind of brand are you trying to build with that username?

[fuckdang]

I'm not. Two separate things.

edit: downvotes are cool. I expect it from this community. Don't let people get you down OP. Probably go somewhere more supportive