[um_ya]

Unions originated as a way to commoditise labor. It has since grown into a way to keep out freelance competitors, and to force employers into doing things (both of which I don't agree with). In terms of commoditsing labor, tech is a very skill specific profession with no cookie cutter employee to sell, which makes it a bad candidate for unions.

[knucklesandwich]

This notion that there is a wide distribution in engineer competency has come under a lot of criticism for many reasons (not the least of which being that its often used as a cover for discrimination on the basis of gender): https://lwn.net/Articles/641779/ If you believe there to be such a wide distribution in talent and that salaries at your company are commensurately paid, I suggest you ask your employer if they will disclose every employee's salary and the justification for them.

Even if this we take this for granted, its completely untrue that all unions commoditize a trade by flattening pay. There are plenty of unions that have chosen not to put standardized salaries in contracts or have advocated tiered salary agreements or merit pay. Whether or not these are good things, they are things that unions have done and should dispel with the notion that unions are inflexible towards these concerns by workers.

As for your concern that unions "force employers to do things", well I suggest you consider all of the ways your employer can coerce you to do things and whether you actually have a mutualistic relationship. Many workers don't feel that they do.

[jasonlingx]

Rock stars don't need unions.

[Frondo]

Sounds like someone hasn't heard of the American Federation of Musicians.

[jasonlingx]

Those aren't rock stars...

[flukus]

Or the RIAA, even the mega crops of the industry have a union.

[chimeracoder]

> Or the RIAA, even the mega crops of the industry have a union.

...which hardly can be said to be acting in the best interests of either small-time musicians or big stars.

The RIAA actively seeks to withhold royalties from musicians and intentionally makes it very difficult to collect them. A number of big-name stars sued them over this some years back, unsuccessfully.

[vkou]

No, but they act in the best interests of their members.

[slidemodern]

No, but they do need industry-savy managers and agents working for them to ensure they get the best deal.

[jasonlingx]

Yes, they have their own union. Which is the opposite of a union.

[unityByFreedom]

It doesn't really matter what unions become in certain cases, does it?

Unions were reinforced by the NLRA to enable workers to bargain collectively. That can mean a lot of things

A union for software engineers is a blank slate. It hasn't been done before. It could be anything someone makes of it.

[pbecotte]

That's... not true. I was in a unionized software development shop at L3 communications in Camden. It was... different. Having a published document showing how the "top performers" were going to get a 3.5% raise this year while the average people would only get 2.5% was odd. Counting my hours (including signing out for lunch and getting management approval for overtime) was very different. Getting paid overtime was nice!

The problem is that if I had stayed there for thirty years, I would have been pretty much guaranteed to make good money. By changing jobs a couple times, I made that same money in 2. So... people who are capable of getting better jobs and willing to risk change simply left, while people looking for stability or who had trouble getting jobs simply stayed. This didn't lead to the type of environment that I enjoyed working in. Your mileage may vary.

[Apocryphon]

Camden, in the UK? Thanks for sharing your experience. Any sort of unionized IT environment in the U.S. is an absolute rarity, if such things exist at all. I don't deny that unions would add an additional layer of complexity and will have unintended drawbacks. But if there were union shops in tech, then at least there will be options for tech workers to choose between stability and rapid growth. Certainly providing the former will help in addressing the ageism in Silicon Valley.