[hueving]

>No. You may still be liable for $500 if you fail to report it within 48 HOURS

"may" is much different than "are". I've had it happen 3 different times and didn't realize until many days later and was never asked to pay for any of it.

Guess how much you lose if someone steals $50,000 of bitcoin from you and you don't notice for 48 hours?

>Transactions will be confirmed and spendable by the recipient within 10min on average

Almost nobody gives two shits about how long it takes for the recipient to be able to spend it in the majority of credit card transactions.

>Finally transactions are considered irreversible/definitely non-fraudulent after 6 blocks or 60min on average (with CCs it takes 60 days since charge backs are possible for 60 days).

Worse for the consumer, better for the merchant. But again, nobody cares about the merchant in these cases. Merchants already hate credit cards so you don't need to convince them. You need to convince consumers, who drove the credit card adoption in the first place.

[mrb]

""may" is much different than "are""

Which is why I corrected the poster who made it sound like credit cards "always" protect you, when it's not true. "Often" and "mostly", but not "always".

"Guess how much you lose if someone steals $50,000 of bitcoins"

Hardware wallets solve the theft problem. To date there have been no verifiable incidents of Bitcoins stolen from hardware wallets.

Credit cards as they are implemented will NEVER solve the theft problem without constant anti-fraud efforts. Bitcoin uses cryptography to authorize a specific transaction. Credit cards rely blindly on the merchant's good will and security to charge for the right amount and to prevent the CC info from being stolen. The more you transact the more merchants the CC info circulate through, and the higher the risk of fraud. Which is why CC fraud has been rising and rising for many years.

"Almost nobody gives two shits about how long it takes"

Listen, I was just pointing out people who say "CCs transactions are quicker than Bitcoin transactions" are wrong. Accepting a zero-conf Bitcoin transaction is similar ("as risky as") accepting a CC transaction after swiping/chip-and-pin. Therefore that's what should be compared, and both Bitcoin and CC transactions are just as fast as each other (seconds).

I actually agree that the immutability of a Bitcoin transaction is a negative for the consumer. (But I don't think it is a cons big enough to seriously hamper Bitcoin's adoption.)

[hueving]

>Which is why I corrected the poster who made it sound like credit cards "always" protect you, when it's not true. "Often" and "mostly", but not "always".

This is a distinction irrelevant in the real world where the status quo (at least in the US) is that companies protect you. Bitcoin has to compete with what exists, not a potential strawman based on what the laws say.

>Hardware wallets solve the theft problem. To date there have been no verifiable incidents of Bitcoins stolen from hardware wallets.

Can hardware wallets be stolen? If so, you just lost $50k regardless of the attacker gaining access to it. If not, it means you have keys backed up somewhere that can be stolen.

>>"Almost nobody gives two shits about how long it takes"

>Listen, I was just pointing out people who say "CCs transactions are quicker than Bitcoin transactions" are wrong.

Don't quote out of context. The rest of my sentence clearly shows I'm referring to the speed for the consumer. From a consumer perspective, the transaction is done right when the credit card machine returns (a.k.a within seconds).

>Accepting a zero-conf Bitcoin transaction is similar ("as risky as") accepting a CC transaction after swiping/chip-and-pin.

No it's not. A zero-conf transaction someone can double-spend against and the merchant has no recourse and the consumer has no risk. Merchants will be forced to wait for confirmation unless they have other leverage against the consumer to use on bad behavior.

In CC transactions, the risk to the merchant is a chargeback. A consumer can only lie about these a few times in their life before they get caught by a combination of the credit card company and a merchant and they will be arrested for credit card fraud.

Until the government steps in and writes laws making double-spending fraud, CC will be safe than zero-conf transactions.