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by throwaway729 3411 days ago
This is an incredibly confusing post.

> I find this letter to be deeply cynical... I find it deeply cynical that instead it masquerades as a virtuous plan to help all man kind.

As a matter of fact, this letter is hopeful, not cynical.

It's certainly hoping for something that you don't want, but that's entirely beside the point. No detached native English reader would objectively describe the tone of this piece as "cynical".

Additionally, "masquerade" implies deceit. Do you have any evidence that there aren't Zuckerberg's sincerely held beliefs?

> There's a baked in assumption that a global community is a good thing and that the only possible reason to resist it is because you're being left behind by its benefits

In what sense is this baked in?

On the contrary, the first couple paragraphs are devoted to motivating the global scale of what Zuckerberg perceives as humanity's most pressing challenges -- "...ending terrorism, fighting climate change, and preventing pandemics...".

Zuckerberg isn't saying "we need global cooperation because it's an inherent good." He's identifying concrete problems facing humanity, and suggesting reasons why international cooperation is necessary to tackle those concrete problems.

A substantive response to Zuckerberg would like-wise address these concrete problems and discuss how his proposed solutions are ineffective or counter-productive, rather than rejecting the letter carte blanc in broad rhetorical strokes.

Again, you're free to disagree with Zuckerberg, but calling these "baked in assumptions" is a mis-comprehension.

> I don't think that's true and I certainly don't think it should be assumed a priori.

OK, fair enough!

> There are people in this country, and every where in the world, who don't want globalization. And it's not because they haven't received enough of the benefits or need to be educated better, they don't want it for real reasons and, in a Democracy, that should be an acceptable stance.

Where does Zuckerberg state otherwise?

> If we're not willing to accept that stance than we're forcing people into a global community that matches our vision for the future, not theirs.

Zuckerberg disagrees with you. He's stating that disagreement in a public forum.

Critically, he's NOT suggesting that you shouldn't be allowed to have your opinion! He's just suggesting that your opinion is wrong and that we ought to go a different direction instead.

Existence of opposing political wills working publicly in good faith toward their goals (opposing or otherwise) is a foundation of democracy.

You're effectively suggesting that someone is anti-democractic because they openly oppose your policy agenda. Which is a deeply flawed argument.

> In other words it's a plot for world domination of one world view over another.

All political projects are plots for domination. Even liberty-minded political projects aim to dominate opposing political forces in order to make room for their libertarian projects. Distribution of power is the whole point of politics.

Disparaging politics is fine, of course, but it's a confusing thing to do when you're taking the opposing side of a political battle...

1 comments

I have a few things to say about your post, but I thought I'd comment just on one.

Let's recap. OP says:

>> They don't want it for real reasons and, in a Democracy, that should be an acceptable stance. If we're not willing to accept that stance than we're forcing people into a global community that matches our vision for the future, not theirs.

So you say.

> Existence of opposing political wills working publicly in good faith toward their goals (opposing or otherwise) is a foundation of democracy. You're effectively suggesting that someone is anti-democractic because they openly oppose your policy agenda. Which is a deeply flawed argument.

But if his/her agenda is Democracy, then yes, someone who opposes this agenda comes off as anti-democratic no? OP does seem to be in line with the Democratic ideal since autonomy and sovereignty is a big part of democracy, which is in line with your own comment!

So OP is saying "hey, some people oppose this. Democracy is about allowing differing views, so forcing this is not democratic". To which you are saying, "Well, that's flawed, because democracy is about allowing differing views". See where I'm getting at?

Just thought I'd point this out this little oxymoron to you since it seems like you tripped a bit in your logic and confused arguments. Happens to everyone, but worth pointing out so you keep it in mind for the future!

> But if his/her agenda is Democracy... So OP is saying "hey, some people oppose this.

Where does Zuckerberg oppose democracy in this post? Show me the specific line where he makes a concrete and definitive statement that he opposes democracy.

If Zuckerberg were arguing against democracy, or if the parent gave a concrete argument that this is an effect of his advocacy, then I would have all the sympathy in the world for the argument you're making. But parent doesn't make that argument, and I'm pretty damn sure Zuckerberg didn't explicitly condone anti-democratic viewpoints in this post.

> Democracy is about allowing differing views, so forcing this is not democratic"

Democracies are a form of government.

The whole point of government is applying force.

The point of democracy is that we come to a consensus about when and how to apply that force via voting.

But the application of force itself is extremely democratic. Without it, government -- and by extension, democracy -- does not exist.

Now, if Zuckerberg were arguing that we should apply that force to prevent you from expressing your opinion or obtaining democratic consensus about something, that's one thing. But again, I don't think he's saying any of that...

> Just thought I'd point this out this little oxymoron to you since it seems like you tripped a bit in your logic and confused arguments

I interpreted Zuckerberg's words on face value. You seem to be reading a hell of a lot between the lines. And maybe that's fair. But you have to actually make that argument. Otherwise you're preaching to the choir and anyone who doesn't already agree with you is left confused and incredulous.

Because, at face value, Zuckerberg is NOT arguing against either democracy OR against free speech rights. If you want to argue that he is sympathetic to authoritarianism or opposed to free speech, then make that argument. But don't condescend as if these things are obvious when the actual text were discussing emphatically doesn't argue against either democracy or free speech.

If you can point to the specific line in this post where he explicitly advocates either of those things, I'll extend my sincerest apologies. Otherwise, you're drawing extremely wild inferences out of thin air, and taking a condescending tone when people call into question your rather conspiratorial priors.

> Happens to everyone

Indeed...