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by wonderflpancake 3417 days ago
I wish we would stop with the vaxxers vs. anti-vaxxers. I think most people (including myself) fall into the middle - we don't believe they are entirely safe, but understand its the lesser of two evils and have to roll the dice.

What I dislike about the "pro-vaxxers" is their unwillingness to acknowledge ANYTHING negative about vaccines.

- There IS "stuff" in most vaccines that we should ALL agree should not be in there (formaldehyde, aluminum, etc). There is no "safe" level of aluminum for a baby. Some vaccines manufacturers make them without these things if you really do the research for each one, but the chance your doctor carries the perfect brand combinations of the ones without all the questionable ingredients is unlikely. For example, if you find out XYZ co makes the MMR vaccine without aluminum, it doesn't really matter because you probably can't get the version from XYZ co.

- The packet insert clinical studies that come in the vaccines are usually absurdly small. We should ALL agree millions of people are getting these vaccinations every year and a sample size of 500, 5000, or 10000 people in 1980 just doesn't cut it. There should be better ways to keep these studies current with much more data.

But no one usually wants to hear these criticisms. "The science proves its safe!" Sure, until it doesn't. Wouldn't it be great if we could just acknowledge the obvious issues instead of opposing everything the other side says?

4 comments

Based on what scientific fact do you state "there is no safe level of aluminum for a baby?" We all, including babies, contain aluminum. That's the problem: i can't agree to "there's stuff in there that should not be" based on an opinion.
http://www.askdrsears.com/topics/health-concerns/vaccines/va... gives quite a bit of color.

This is exactly what I always see happen. Common sense tells me formaldehyde and aluminum = not good. It's not iron after all. I don't recall every seeing formaldehyde or aluminum nutrition supplement pills. Yet people will literally argue that formaldehyde is naturally occurring and exists in our bodies and that's supposed to fly "scientifically". We need to do better.

From Wikipedia:

> Formaldehyde and its adducts are ubiquitous in living organisms. It is formed in the metabolism of endogenous amino acids and is found in the bloodstream of humans and other primates at concentrations of approximately 0.1 millimolar.

Maybe "people will literally argue that formaldehyde is naturally occurring and exists in our bodies" because, you know, it's true?

Also considering that aluminum is the third most abundant element in the Earth's crust, I'd be very surprised if even ancient people didn't have some aluminum in their bodies. They could ingest more aluminum than we do simply by chewing on food with dirt.

> Maybe "people will literally argue that formaldehyde is naturally occurring and exists in our bodies" because, you know, it's true?

Sure, as a standalone fact. But the context of this topic is as an additive in vaccines given to babies 10-30 lbs.

I'm still amazed people will argue that it's fine to add formaldehyde and aluminum, and then justify it with ancient people. The lengths people will go to to avoid giving an inch to any vaccine concerns is crazy. I'd even take a "Yes, ok you have a point there, BUT still...".

Because you haven't demonstrated that the aluminium is harmful. Babies eat it every day, do you suggest stopping breast feeding because breast milk contains a lot of aluminium:

http://www.chop.edu/centers-programs/vaccine-education-cente...

I'm not sure how much demonstration you could need. The page I previously linked to is thoroughly sourced to medical journals and the doctor even gives a balanced opinion:

> If I could sum up the aluminum controversy in three sentences, it would be this. There is good evidence that large amounts of aluminum are harmful to humans. There is no solid evidence that the amount of aluminum in vaccines is harmful to infants and children. No one has actually studied vaccine amounts of aluminum in healthy human infants to make sure it is safe. Should we now stop and research this matter? Or should we just go on and continue to hope that it is safe?

Regarding the aluminum in breast milk - I won't say its false because I don't know. But so far I haven't found that sourced anywhere. Just a lot of articles using it as a talking point.

If you are injured by a vaccine you can't sue the manufacturer, you have to go though the Vaccine Court. Meanwhile the vaccines themselves can enumerate some hideous side effects.

https://www.scribd.com/doc/306554223/Diphtheria-and-Tetanus-...

No most people do not think they are "somewhat safe". Who do you know that has been injured by a vaccine? Any family? Friends? Friends of Friends? Why are you afraid of something you don't even have anecdotal evidence for?
There's no such thing as "pro-vaxxers".

Please, don't treat your audience as if we were stupid. This is the anti-vaxxer script...