[Retra]

Plenty of better solutions are being put forward. Nobody listens to them because they come from "educated elites" AKA those people with unique experiences and depth of knowledge necessary to come up with new ideas.

If you don't see better solutions, it's because you're actively avoiding them.

[pdkl95]

> Nobody listens

How much time, money, and effort was spent actually educating people so they can make a properly informed decision? Suggesting a new idea is only the first step. Having "unique experiences and depth of knowledge" doesn't mean anything if you can't explain the new idea to everyone else.

Why should anyone listen to your new idea if you aren't explaining it in a language[1] they understand?

[1] http://scienceblogs.com/clock/2007/05/31/more-than-just-resi...

[flukus]

> If you don't see better solutions, it's because you're actively avoiding them.

Not sure exactly what you're talking about but I've long been a proponent of UBI for instance. But new ideas like this aren't being adopting by the mainstream left and probably won't for some time. You never get any progress without a firebrand to sell the message. The mainstream left seems more interested in playing identity politics as a wedge than coming out with a positive action plan.

[Retra]

That has nothing to do with the "mainstream left", and everything to do with the volatile nature of holding political office in a sound-byte culture. Stop listening to professional campaigners and start listening to professional thinkers.

The fact that you even invoked the term "mainstream left" here makes it perfectly clear that you're more than happy playing identity politics. You speak in terms of political labels, not in terms of mechanisms for solving problems.

[flukus]

> That has nothing to do with the "mainstream left", and everything to do with the volatile nature of holding political office in a sound-byte culture. Stop listening to professional campaigners and start listening to professional thinkers.

Why? The greatest mind in the world might solve poverty tomorrow but unless they can convince the public they may as well keep it to themselves. Let's also not forget that professional thinkers are often incorrect and disconnected from reality. Support for communism was quite high amongst professional thinkers. Not to mention that professional thinkers these days includes the like of feminist studies professors that are about as regressive as they come.

[Retra]

I'm not sure why you feel inclined to dismiss the analytical value of historians, doctors, economists, and scientists because they might take seriously the opinions of feminists and communists.

So, yeah. Let's forget that. Because it's juvenile and petty.

PS: You're talking to a feminist and communist. I'm not sure why you'd imagine I'd object as you do to the points you raise. I doubt you've ever read any communist or feminist literature, or that you'd care enough to understand it if you did.

[flukus]

> PS: You're talking to a feminist and communist.

Your the intellectual elitists that Trump voters (and myself) hate. You're influence on the left is why they are losing elections and why there are very few left wing parties I would vote for these days.

[Retra]

You know nothing about me, and I certainly have no influence on the left. You do realize that you're talking to some random person on the internet, right? And I certainly don't give a shit who you'd vote for. I'm not surprised that I am hated. US Republicans have been sucking on a hate-spewing propaganda teat for almost a decade. I'm only asking that you understand the consequences of that. You'll suffer them either way.

But whatever. You're petty and can't avoid identity politics. And I would rather talk about actually relevant ideas, so have a good life.

[bhawks]

> AKA those people with unique experiences and depth of knowledge necessary to come up with new ideas.

Statements like this make it sound like you believe that the middle American working class is not capable of coming up with there own solutions, or that there solutions are totally without merit. An even more uncharitable reading would imply that they cannot even enumerate the problems they face.

I don't assume you mean this, but so much of the division we face is due to the otherization that happens on all sides.

Middle America assumes that the coastal elite stopped caring about their problems and proposes actions that have negative consequences for them. This is definitely not intentional on a large scale. However if you look at the state of middle America's economy you can't argue that the is a huge room for improvement and the divide between them and the coast has become a chasm.

[Retra]

I'm not really talking about the middle American working class. They are certainly capable of coming up with solutions. But when someone says "nobody is providing solutions" I can only imagine that they live under a rock with a community of people who are incapable of coming up with solutions.

[zo1]

Those same individuals have warped, sheltered, and idealistic views/ideas. Just a thought, and as coming from someone that outright rejects a multitude of "ideas" from such "educated elites", have you considered that we actually "don't want" or "don't like" the ideas that they put forward? Some of them have natural consequences that we don't like, and some are based on premises we find incorrect.

Edit. Grammar.