[astrodust]

Then instead of bitching about the tools or the attitude of developers, which does nothing, why not work to encourage people to support it properly?

For example: I think personal donations can only go so far. I'd rather see an easier sell for simple "support packages" that developers can recommend to their organization that helps further development. "We're really invested in package X and it'd be great to be listed as a supporter on their page, it's cheap marketing and they'll help us with technical support issues! We could try a $50/mo. subscription..."

Compared to $50K annual server licences that's an easy sell if it can be phrased in a culturally compatible way.

[ggame]

None of the ideas you present are new to me. I've tried them all. I have many friends in the space who have tried them all as well. If anything worked we'd be the first to know.

"If it can be phased in a culturally acceptable way" - have you ever tried to intentionally change a culture? It's damn near impossible. Having it as a prerequisite to success practically guarantees failure.

[astrodust]

"Tried" and "persevered" are two different things. The people I know who've found success in these endeavours have only found it by sticking to it and grinding until they got somewhere.

They had to endure multiple failures, but each time they failed less than the last. Success was really the one where they failed the least, and after that they can chart their own path, they're finally above water.

> have you ever tried to intentionally change a culture? It's damn near impossible.

Yes, I have. It's not impossible, it's just very hard. It requires stubborn determination.

Don't expect anyone to care about your project unless you make them care. Don't expect anyone to pay for your project unless you ask them to. You need to engage, you need to evangelize, you need to promote. Relentlessly.

For example, I haven't heard one bit of promotion from you in all of these comments. Not a peep. Does that mean whatever you're doing isn't worth mentioning?

[toyg]

> I'd rather see an easier sell for simple "support packages"

There's an idea for a service, there. Have something that developers can use to generate "support packages" or "freemium" offers, and get a cut. Basically, a sort of appstore for developers to developers. You could even offer a white-label service that people can integrate in their own websites.

These services exist already for generic commerce, we just need something slightly more focused on the needs of developers.

[wolfgke]

> Then instead of bitching about the tools or the attitude of developers, which does nothing, why not work to encourage people to support it properly?

Perhaps because ggame is not a good marketer. I for example try to promote some ideas (unrelated to the topic here) all the time, but I am talking to a wall. Thus I'm surely not a good salesman, but a very good programmer and mathematician, I think. So don't ascribe double standard to ggame.

[ggame]

I wish it was my lack of marketing and business skills, that way there would be more room for others to succeed.

While I'm not claiming to be a marketing guru, I am successful in business in a different domain. Hence my early retirement.

[bboreham]

Your "supporter" idea is attractive, but note that big companies protect their brand more than anything else. Getting permission to put that brand on some random third-party web page can be nearly impossible.