[seagreen]

> Then Linux happened, then scripting languages like Perl, Python and PHP proved themselves capable of getting the job done, and the modern web came about. This would never, ever have happened without those tools.

So Linux was so good . . . that it enabled a world where normal people don't use it, but instead use JS apps that store information on other people's servers? Because that's what I hear when you say Linux is a success because it enabled the web.

[astrodust]

Normal people use Android phones. Which use Linux.

Normal people use shared hosting. Which often uses Linux.

Normal people use Linux a lot more than they realize. I think it's fine they don't have to pay attention to that, that computers can be invisible that way, but if you call yourself someone familiar with technology you can't be ignorant to it.

So do you have an argument or just a whole lot of misplaced anger?

[pjmlp]

Android phones run on a Java runtime with constrained access to native libraries. Google can replace Linux for something else, no one will notice.

Normal people use shared hosting, with runtimes that don't require Linux. It could be something else and PHP, Perl, ASP, JEE stacks will still run.

Normal people use Linux on devices, because it is the best OS OEMs can get their hands on without paying a dime for it.

[garaetjjte]

Android apps can use native binaries. Replacing linux without breaking compatibility with apps is rather impossible (unless with some linux compatibility layer)

[pjmlp]

Have you ever used the NDK?

Android apps are only allowed to link to these specific set of libraries.

https://developer.android.com/ndk/guides/stable_apis.html

To put an hand to the cowboy programmers that were linking to system libraries not part of that list, starting with Android 7, they will be terminated if they try to do so.

https://developer.android.com/about/versions/nougat/android-...

The only form of binaries allowed on a standard Android device are shared objects.

The Native Activity is actually just the native method calls of https://developer.android.com/reference/android/app/NativeAc... that loads a shared object with a predefined name.

None of the stable NDK APIs are GNU/Linux specific and the POSIX layer isn't fully compliant with the standard, many APIs like e.g. SYS V IPC are missing.

http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~vatlidak/resources/POSIXmagazine...

https://roxanageambasu.github.io/publications/eurosys2016pos...

Rooted devices don't count, as that is not what people get on the store when they buy an Android device.

[seagreen]

I have a lot of accurately placed anger.

Linux is great for experts, and I really respect it for that. It has been very empowering to people like us.

The web is a peasantizing TV replacement and a trash fire. Linux is great on its own merits, not because it enabled this "web" abomination.

(Talking about webapps here, not web sites. Your personal static site is awesome. The fact that many people's experience with computers is remotely delivered JS storing data places they don't control is not.)

[kazga]

What exactly do you think the majority of "the web" runs on?

[pjmlp]

The Web is a set network protocols and web browsers, all of them born on commercial UNIX systems, not Linux.

GNU/Linux and *BSD became relevant to the web infrastructure, as no one wanted to give money for UNIX.

Which is the culture that lead developers as the Octave's author to search for income elsewhere.