[api]

Mac is dead for developers and pro users if this is the case. My current Mac will be my last, and I'll be happy to give my money to Dell instead and anyone else selling more open hardware.

One of our devs just got a new XPS 15. It's a gorgeous machine. Amazing. First time I've envied a non-Apple machine since the early 2000s. I still marginally prefer the Mac track pad but the rest is on par or better.

[mi100hael]

Can confirm. I sold my MBP and bought myself one of the new Dell 15" developer editions. Trackpad is about on par with the prior physically-clicking mac trackpads. I run Fedora and the only thing that doesn't work is hot-plugging the Ethernet adapter. Otherwise all the usual Linux pitfalls like sleep/wake, wifi, hidpi, touch screen, etc. work fine out of the box. No plans to switch away.

[sofaofthedamned]

I did exactly the same with an xps 13. Gave my Macbook Retina to my girlfriend, as the new models were not compelling at all. Fedora 25 is lovely on it and I can run docker and KVM on it natively. I will buy another Mac if they give me a proper value proposition.

[0x0]

Yeah, I think they'll lose 99.5% developer mindshare as well. Which is the one thing Ballmer got right. Don't underestimate the value of developer support for a platform like iOS.

[pinaceae]

developers go where there is money to be made. only having xcode on osx/macos hasn't hurt apple a bit.

[0x0]

Developers also very often go where the system is convenient and open and developer-friendly, see: the rise of linux, php, rails, node, mysql, wordpress, git; and android vs windows phone/mobile.

[mikewhy]

Isn't Apple still in the better position here? Since it comes with Unix-friendly tools, and most of the languages and tools you listed.

[0x0]

Do you think you'll be able to use those tools in a gatekeeper-MAS-only world? Or if Apple ships prebuilt versions, how well supported will they be by the authors of those tools if they can't develop and compile new versions on the platform on their own?

For a preview of the future, try this one on macOS 10.12 today:

% lldb --one-line run /usr/bin/python

spoiler:

  Current executable set to '/usr/bin/python' (x86_64).
  error: process exited with status -1 (cannot attach to process due to System Integrity Protection)

[acdha]

Your example is just showing that Apple picked decent security defaults for binaries which they ship. SIP can be disabled any time you want and it doesn't apply to things you compile.

There is a genuine argument about control but overselling it just lowers your credibility, especially since it reveals tunnel vision: statistically very few Mac users need to run a debugger but more are at risk for malware which uses sensitive APIs.

[tormeh]

On server I think this is correct. On consumer devices this is really not the case. Has any platform with a huge consumer base ever died by being abandoned by developers first, as opposed to device owners?

[api]

Developers will target Apple, but they won't use Apple or like Apple. It'll be like Windows during MS's dark years.

[endemic]

Right, but what independent developer is making money on the App Store these days?