[lukeschlather]

That sounds like a problem (if it is a problem) that should be addressed by limiting the number of student visas, not by allowing people to get a valuable US education and then telling them to go home.

I've worked with many people on H1Bs and student visas. Every single one of them was a valuable person to work with, and they should be citizens. Maybe universities are becoming green card mills, but in my experience everyone who goes to a US university gets exactly what they bargained for. The law may say otherwise, but in spirit they become Americans.

[mi100hael]

> I've worked with many people on H1Bs and student visas. Every single one of them was a valuable person to work with, and they should be citizens.

In what industry do you work? As a software engineer, I've worked with a lot of people on H-1Bs. They are normal, nice people like anyone else I'd have no problem with them becoming citizens given the proper process, but I wouldn't say they brought more value than any American programmer.

[lutorm]

It seemed to me that the OP did not argue they brought more value than an American programmer but that the US is better off with them than without them.

The question is what the "proper process" is for them becoming citizens, isn't it? It seems logical to me that the process should be different for someone who's graduated from a US university than an imported H1B worker (but then I'm one of the former, so I'm not unbiased.)

[lukeschlather]

I didn't say they are more valuable, I said they are valuable, and that they are American programmers and the law should be corrected to reflect that.

[mi100hael]

But that's not what H-1B visas are for. They are intended to allow companies to hire for specialized skills that they can't find domestically. The are also objectively not Americans.

[karmelapple]

Limiting the number of student visas will limit the amount of income for universities, though, so it will be fought at the institutional level.

If someone has spent multiple years - especially their undergrad AND graduate years - in the USA, and they are interested in permanent residence, why would we tell that person to leave?

If that person can select a job just like a US citizen without fear of getting deported, that more or less levels the playing field, correct? They don't have to take sub-industry-standard wages, and can instead hold out for the right job in the right place.

[mcguire]

Even if it's not a tech job?

[pm90]

I guess this is a personal opinion, and I definetly do have a skin in the game being an immigrant, but I do sincerely believe that studying in an American university is kind of a life changing experience (it was for me!). Its not like everyone who comes here wants to live here: a lot of my friends went back, mostly because they like to be near their families, like to live amid their own culture. So if someone does decide to stay here, it does mean a certain amount of commitment and sacrifice. Studying and living in the US is kind of like a trial run: some people like it and others don't. So for those who do, who are well educated, willing to contribute to the American economy and society, it feels like a shame to kick them out.

[karmelapple]

I'm confused; are you saying first-generation immigrants with a green card who are competing with US citizens in non-tech jobs don't have a level playing field?

[mcguire]

No, my understanding of the proposal under consideration is a green card for any foreign student graduating from a US university. I was wondering if that was limited to high paying, in demand majors or would apply to history or radio-television-and-film. (I do so love picking on RTF majors.)

[karmelapple]

If someone has come to the USA for education, and can find a job in that field, I think it's fair. If you've shown you're willing to get good grades throughout four years of college, that's some indication that you have good discipline and would be a net benefit to the economy.

There's no guarantee of that, but if someone wants to stay, they'll be paying taxes (and were throughout their schooling days), driving the housing market, etc. If they can't find a job, they'll likely think about going elsewhere.