[brc]

We're going to have to agree to disagree on this one, because I'm not into endless thread debates. I'm going to restate my thoughts, feel free to disagree, but this is to clarify my position one more time. Anyone who ever stumbles across the thread in the future can make up their own mind.

" they most certainly are not parasites living off the backs of the productive as you wrongly imply"

You have projected speech onto me, probably from what you think my political views are : that's not what I said at all. In my island example, I don't doubt that the other half of the island are doing something productive, I just said that, in order for them to exist, the half collecting the food and water have to provide for them. It's not a chicken and egg situation : the first half have to be productive before the second half can share in the results. The analogy is that one half of the population is creating things, people are paying money for those things, and the other half is living off the excess value or money created. Government services are mostly by definition a net consumer of money, this is obvious otherwise the government would be self-funding by now.

Again, I'm talking about money, not benefits. Of course people benefit from government services, however, I'm talking about the measurement of GDP : which is a measurement of money, not benefits.

At least we agree that you can't just take from the people who produce endlessly and distribute it around. And I'm a big supporter of social safety nets like welfare and medical services. I just don't like to see the government becoming larger than the private sector in any economy.