[api_or_ipa]

I'll say this everytime Vancouver comes up in HN. It's a stunning city, full of modern amenities (including a public transit system that's actually awesome and very well used) and incredible access to nature. None of this is remotely enticing to young engineers when they make 2x-3x as much in SF and only pay ~30-50% more for housing.

Until wages rise in Vancouver, there will be much fanfare about tech companies moving north, but very little actual movement.

[mc32]

Why doesn't silicon valley throw Mexico a bone?

I'm sure Mexico would be up to taking advantage of the new congress's policies as a means to irk Trump.

Why not contribute to the economic growth of the underachieving neighbor rather than the overachiever? People talk about sympathizing illegal immigrants from Mexico, but when they have a real opportunity to help develop the place, they kind of forget about them altogether, as if it's just an opinion to have.

[avatar345]

I have no insight into the decision process used by these companies, however there are several issues that would be less appealing to workers. I can only imagine that retaining talent and productivity is their number one concern. The most obvious is the language barrier. Many of these immigrant workers have invested a large amount of their time throughout their lives to learn English, and move their families to an English speaking country. It's a disruption to move, but at least the transition process can eased if the country speaks English.

The primary goal of these companies is to profit. I get the sense that many of the companies doing this are smaller venture backed companies that don't have enormous resources to spare. If they go under, then they won't be helping anyone. That said, Google has offices in Mexico.

I say this as an American born Latino who can speak Spanish.

[shostack]

Many people don't want to live somewhere where the cartels rule and disappearings ending in brutal murder are a thing.

[mc32]

If google can have offices in mdf, so can others --stay out of the illegal drugs business and you'll be fine.

This protest business is strange. We have many Indians here fretting and denouncing the temp refugee ban, but I'd bet most don't care about how the Indian government treats refugees back home (some in UN camps), many not recognized. etc., so it's all political selfishness which is why maybe Americans can be selfish till we get our own poor out of the dumps.

[bdavisx]

>stay out of the illegal drugs business and you'll be fine.

It's not that simple. Imagine if you have a relationships with the daughter of someone in the drug trade (or one of your children do) - and have a bad breakup. Imagine if someone in a cartel decides to take a liking to your daughter - it happens all the time in certain areas. It can happen in America or anywhere - you or someone in your family can get in an abusive relationship - but in Mexico, cartel members are used to getting what they want and acting very violently when they don't.

[ashwinaj]

This happens in India too (replace drug lord with politician, someone influential) that hasn't stopped companies having offices there. And BTW, contrary to what seems common knowledge, there are a lot of expats in India (probably not as many as in the US).

Maybe Mexico is radically different, I don't know. But this seems far fetched to me.

Source: I'm an Indian living in the US

[programmer_dude]

>This happens in India too

This can happen anywhere. One or two isolated incidents cannot be used to infer a trend. I can bet you it happens a lot less (like 10x) here than in Mexico even though India's population is 10x of Mexico (so effectively the situation in India is 100x better than Mexico).

[ashwinaj]

I totally agree. I bet my bottom dollar that nobody gave a damn about refugees while they were in India and arguably don't care about them right now. Now that Trump administration is clamping down on H1B workers, all of a sudden many of them magically care about them. Pure selfishness...

[acchow]

You want highly-paid people who could live anywhere they wanted in the world to move to Mexico? How many people that get paid bay area salaries but work remotely do you think live in Mexico?

[Zach_the_Lizard]

I'd move to Mexico. My purchasing power would skyrocket, and from what I've seen Mexico City is pretty cool.

It's obviously got some downsides, like not being an English speaking country, which is probably why it's not happening

[sametmax]

No the downsides of Mexico are the insecurity, the pollution and the endemic corruption of authorities.

Not speaking english is a fake problem. You can learn spanish in 6 months if you live in the country, it's not a very hard language and Mexican are very social people.

[kogepathic]

As a Canadian, I'd move to Mexico if I was paid the same as I'm making now. Of course no company would be happy to have that happen ;-)

Plus, I'm already used to going to Mexico in winter for a week on a beach, and Mexican food is delicious.

[sametmax]

If you get a remote working gig, you can work from anywhere. I regularly get contracted by americans and still work from my bedroom in France.

[crpatino]

I have seen the responses to this, and all seem very reasonable. We have our fair share of problems down of the border.

However, economy triumps everything. Down here, you can hire talented, English-speaking recent graduates for USD$15k or less. Many companies are already doing this and the main reason they do not do it faster is that the talent pool is constrained. That, too, is changing, due to the growing pool of would be mentors.

Indian companies, such as Tata, are doing this too. Their main motivation is to have multiple locations around the sun to implement their "follow the sun" support system, but a huge side effect is reduced cost. They hire plenty of local talent too, but bring lots of immigrants from their mainland. In the last 10 years, all the posh neighbourhoods in the south side of my town are seeing the arrival of Asian populations, formerly unheard off.

[eva1984]

Not attractive, and language problem.

[deanCommie]

2x-3x is excessive, and is changing.

Anecdotally, the Amazon/Microsofts of the world pay "only" 30% less in Vancouver than they do in Seattle. I haven't confirmed but supposedly Salesforce no longer discounts.

And despite what the local fear-mongering suggests, these companies aren't just using Vancouver as an H1B parking lot - they are establishing real centers of excellence and hiring plenty of local talent.

All this to say is salaries take a long time to adjust, but local companies will learn they will need to pay more to compete.

[whitecat]

I think 2x-3x is not excessive at all. The exchange rate is ~1.30 CAD to 1 USD. I work at UBC and most software developers graduating here are in the $60k range.

Taxes are worse for Americans as you have to pay both US and CAD taxes if you make over $100k.

[spoonie]

Due to the tax treaty between Canada and the US you'll get tax credits in the US for Canadian taxes paid that would offset the US taxes in most cases.

[vostok]

Downtown Vancouver is a bit of a dream (early) retirement destination for me. It's clean, beautiful, close to all sorts of outdoor activities, doesn't get cold, and apartments are actually not that expensive.

[danielrpa]

The weather, unfortunately, is terrible. But this is also a problem with Seattle, another major tech hub.

[api_or_ipa]

Late reply, but I'll argue you on the weather. Vancouver gets tons of cold rain, yes, but that is manageable. Just a few degrees colder and we'd get snow, which is infinitely harder to deal with on a infrastructural level.

Being so close to the freezing point has its perks: Vancouver's mountains get some of the best snow and longest seasons. I've skied in Whistler in late May and gone to the beach. Those days are amazing.