[rdtsc]

> As of 2017, the United States, through a sequence of highly improbable events, managed to elect an extremely controversial president.

I think it a mistake to see this as a random fluke and chuck it up to chance. It seems like chance to those who were asleep or were watching news from their own bubble.

Trump is a symptom of something that was already there probably decades in the making. If we ignore the conditions which created Trump, if we only pay attention to what is in our own Facebook feed we'll end up with another Trump, and another. Every time assuming it was random or an act of God or Russians or whatever.

Also where were all these prominent tech people and CEOs when Obama was Hillary were busy destabilizing the region, bombing civilians and arming rebels in that part of the world. I find a bit hypocritical everyone being upset about a travel ban and not upset about much worse stuff. But this is about waking up so it is a good first step.

> And he signed an executive order that literally, not figuratively, banned Muslims from entering the US

It was a list created by the Obama administration for largely the same purpose. And was even used for a while to actually ban people from a Muslim country. Was there any outrage, how many tech leaders pledged to oppose the unfair blocking of refugees then? Also why didn't Trump block Indonesia instead if this this infamous Muslim ban. If this was a general Muslim ban it doesn't seem very effective just based on the countries it covers.

Let's criticize Trump and his politcies but is this the main and most serious thing to expend all the effort on? We should be paying attention to his cabinet picks, trade deals, economic and military policies.

And also, to be effective it is important to have well defined and realistic goal. Goals such as "removing Trump" are probably not realistic for the next 4 years. But in this case maybe trying to remove some countries from the ban like Iran for ex., or lobbying and campaigning to allow green card holders to be unaffected by it is better.

[puranjay]

I think I'm taking crazy pills but...I distinctly remember watching TV back home in India in 2003 and seeing how everyone was cheering when American troops invaded Baghdad.

I don't know what's the right thing to do here honestly. You can spend 10 more years trying to "fix" Iraq, or you can just pull out, say "go to hell" and try to fix your home.

This situation should have never happened in the first place

[RodericDay]

Best post by a mile. Not only did America elect Trump, Sanders also did mighty fine for someone who in years past would be considered unelectable.

People pass around figures about GDP and low unemployment to prove to themselves things are absolutely fine, but then you dig further and you find that many feel lost and desperate.

Obama said "America is already great", and many people found it a vomit-inducing quip. In many ways liberals brought this upon themselves.

I find similarities in how liberals deal with Trump and how americans in general dealt with 9/11. "They hate us for our freedoms" is a much more palatable idea than thinking about systemic dynamics.

[spydum]

I think both trump and sanders were symptoms. The people wanted change (which is why Obama did so well). What they got was very moderate change. Government doesn't change as fast as people want, so they continue to vote more extreme for change. As others said, just about every other candidate in the running, aside from those two, were about the status quo.

So I agree: the last decade was about change. The downside I think is, we spend waaaay too much time working about the executive, when it's the local/state folks which can really drive the narrative. We need more principled folks running there, and leading from those levels.

[rdtsc]

> Not only did America elect Trump, Sanders also did mighty fine for someone who in years past would be considered unelectable.

Oh yes. Here was someone very leftist (by American standards), almost unknown, old white male who almost won over Hillary in the primaries. Even with all the mass media ignoring him. Have you seen his followers and his rallies... It was breathtaking. So much consistent enthusiasm wasn't a fluke. People have been saying stop talking about Sanders he lost fair and square... Sure, but I an still stunned how many votes he got, not how few (a bit of both in a way).

DNC should have stopped everything and reevaluated their strategy right there and then. Oh well

[golemotron]

> Trump is a symptom of something that was already there probably decades in the making. If we ignore the conditions which created Trump, if we only pay attention to what is in our own Facebook feed we'll end up with another Trump, and another. Every time assuming it was random or an act of God or Russians or whatever.

Yes, Jeff's post is notes from the filter bubble. Someone I know on Facebook was posting proudly after the election about how his son was spending the weekend reading The Atlantic and other mags to understand the Trump voter.

I said no, you get in a car and drive to a red state and talk to people. Mediated communication is not serving us.

[rdtsc]

Exactly a short time with people from the Rust Belt would be very informative. Stuff I get from my friends and family on the coasts makes it sound like all those other who voted for Trump do is wake up and first thing start thinking how they can hurt minorities that day better. That points to a lack of analysis and understanding of what happened and it will just result in Trump being re-ellected.

[meanduck]

> Trump is a symptom of something that was already there probably decades in the making

And the something is: Democratic entitlement. Larger population is feeling the world owe them happy life, free healthcare and the all the things that successful have "took" from them.

And ofcourse its not sustainable. Democracy is done. I give it at most two more Trumps.

PS: I preassume its ok to talk politics in political threads.