[Shank]

If there was ever a use for [insert favorite crypto currency here] gaining adoption, the killer feature is that payments can't be halted or frozen to accounts.

It sounds like they got hit by people who were unaware of what FetLife is following due diligence in processing card transactions. As far as I can discern, it's just a social network with a darker focus, which led to an overreaction from a card network.

[kefka]

The the post lies this answer:

Why haven't you embraced Bitcoin to get away from the restrictions of the banks / credit card companies? - @Eibon

Answer:

We used to accept bitcoins through Coinbase. They dropped us a year ago because we are a kinky site. No joke.

If a Bitcoin site wants to accept credit cards, then they have to adhere to rules set forth by the credit card companies.

Yes, there are other options, and we are going to look into them, but options like Bitcoin are a nice to have and not currently a viable replacement for being able to accept credit and debit cards on FetLife, no matter how much one might want to believe otherwise.

When we offered Bitcoin as an option, it was responsible for less than 0.1% of our daily transactions.

[Shank]

While this may be true, Coinbase isn't synonymous for Bitcoin -- the true "idealized" version is that you generate your own BTC transaction system (or use an off the shelf one?) -- not use a processor (ergo, not Coinbase).

[TylerE]

Still have to cash out through somebody if you want ActualMoney(tm).

[modeless]

There are at least 18 exchanges supporting Bitcoin to dollar conversion that are not Coinbase: https://data.bitcoinity.org/markets/exchanges/USD/30d

There are also other options such as various OTC trading desks or Gemini's daily auctions. And finally, there are several other full-service payment processors that they could try besides Coinbase.

Coinbase was a really bad pick for them. It's almost certainly the single least likely option to be able to support fringe businesses, due to their close relationship with banks and credit card companies.

[madez]

You only need to cash out the amount you can't spend in bitcoins. The more things you can buy in bitcoins, the less powerful politically-controlled money becomes.

[jes5199]

are you going to pay employees in bitcoin?

[tribaal]

Or rent?

[Coding_Cat]

Can't they just pay boringCorp Ltd. in Bitcoin for use of their "bussiness solution" (that is managing your infrastructure or providing the bitcoin transaction platform). The boringCorp Ltd can cash out for ActualMoney(tm) and I'm sure there is some way of accounting to get that money back to where it needs to go.

[kirykl]

Why commit a crime (money laundering) to hide a non crime?

[x1798DE]

It's not money laundering to rearrange your payment structure to avoid currency conversions. If half your customers pay you in Yen and half your customers pay you in dollars, it's not a crime to use the Yen directly to pay your Japanese expenses.

Same goes with bitcoin - if you can find a server company that accepts your bitcoin - you're under no obligation to only buy things using dollars, assuming you are properly reporting your transactions.

(Disclaimer: IANAL)

[gizmo686]

My understanding is that money laundering refers specifically to illegally obtained money; it is perfectly legal to launder otherwise legal money.

Of course, attempting to do so would likely get you investigated, because it looks illegal.

[andreyf]

Still don't see why they can't just accept bitcoin. Buying BTC via credit card is trivial via Coinbase (and they won't ban customers), and while they won't get 100%, they're much more likely to get quite a bit more than 0.1% even if BTC is the only payment option.

[robhu]

If it is provable that Coinbase is being used as a means of bypassing VISA et al's restrictions on sites like FetLife, what is stop VISA et al doing the same to Coinbase?

[problems]

You can already proxy around the CC companies in all too many ways. Buy gift cards, cash cards, heck, prepaid VISA cards for example.

They're not going to bother going after this kind of thing, they'd lose money over it. It doesn't make sense from a financial perspective.

[robhu]

Ah. It turns out FetLife were also banned from Coinbase because Coinbase doesn't want to be cut off as a result.

[andreyf]

But that's the great thing about BTC... all you need to accept them is a computer, and all you need to know when you got some is an ISP.

[timmaah]

Do you think their lawyers and staff want to get paid in BTC?

[modeless]

They wouldn't have to. There are at least 18 other bitcoin exchanges they could use: https://data.bitcoinity.org/markets/exchanges/USD/30d

[MichaelBurge]

The problematic part for Coinbase is probably automatically selling the coins and depositing USD into their checking account. There are other vendors to handle the Bitcoin itself.

In particular, I think Verotel does Bitcoin processing for adult merchants.

[jjawssd]

Where there is one, there may be more

[noarchy]

The linked text mentions that even Coinbase dropped Fetlife, because they (Coinbase) still processes credit card transactions.

So it looks like any use of a cryptocurrency has to be completely decoupled from the credit card world.

[protomyth]

The interface between me receiving cryptocurrency and me paying bills and food with said cryptocurrency is problematic. I get the feeling we are stuck in a credit card world. I cannot imagine a big payment outfit that gets accepted by merchants to not have credit card companies or deal with merchants without bank accounts.

This is really one of those issues that cuts across party (in the US 2 party system) lines. We've seen the crackdown on gun shops, marijuana merchants, and adult industry companies. I don't think I've heard questions asked my the big media to candidates about their feelings toward these type of laws.

I might not like some of these businesses, but every legal business should be able to get paid. I am not comfortable with a politician's beliefs affecting the banking of a legal business.

Normally, I would like the market to handle this but as the article points out, this is not really a free market. "The banks maintain a shared list that contains all merchant account closings." makes sense from a fraud point of view, but it is a process without appeal. Second, banks have a history of legislation requiring fairness of lending. It is probably time to look at the credit card companies with the same eye.

[LyndsySimon]

> We've seen the crackdown on gun shops

The issue with firearms sales seems to be at the payment processor level, not the credit card issuers. The big names (e.g., Authorize.net) categorize firearms sales as "highly regulated industries" - even though they really aren't.

There are payment processors out there that specifically work with FFLs (Federal Firearms Licensees, a/k/a gun stores), but they charge a couple of percent higher transaction fees, and they just seem a little skeezy. A lot of them also service the adult industry.

[protomyth]

The DoJ was going after gun shop merchant accounts also. Gun shops or Fetish sites should be just as protected as any other legal business.

[Senji]

Step one: Start a political party

Step two: Get in power

Step three: Make refusing credit transactions to patrons on grounds of "morality" illegal.

[nerfhammer]

> Start a political party

> Get in power

Almost impossible in a FPTP voting system

[robhu]

Surely it is possible and only requires a majority to support you.

[Senji]

You can take over an established party, eg: alt-right and the mainstream conservative right.

[FussyZeus]

What exactly is the difference between enforcing morality with law and enforcing no morality with law? Morality is an incredibly subjective thing between differing cultures, I don't think it has a place in the justice/civil law systems.

[Senji]

You don't have to write the word "morality" in the law itself. Just make it so they can't deny service to anyone ever.

[RileyKyeden]

It's not dark at all. It's just a place for people to list their kinks. Nothing nefarious. It's very popular in the kinkier sub-communities of the furry fandom.

edit: I got this mixed up with F-List, which is similar in function with a narrower focus.

[leesalminen]

There is definitely a seedy (read: illegal) element to the site which seems to have been going on for years without concrete efforts on the staff's part to eliminate. I'm not talking about kinks, I'm talking about pedophiles and rapists.

[RileyKyeden]

I got it mixed up with a similar site with the same acronym. I don't know much about FetLife.