[jacobolus]

There have been and are plenty of “self-taught” civil engineers. We can start with, say, Archimedes, Vitruvius, Simon Stevin, Leonardo da Vinci, or Bucky Fuller.

There are (for good reasons) particular modern jobs which require licensure, but plenty of production engineering work of all types, even today, is done by folks who don’t have a history of school study or certifications in the field.

It’s not like college lecture halls are the uniquely best learning environment in the world.

[jimminy]

Some countries, such as Canada, regulate the usage of the term as jordigh mentioned. If you have not passed the rigors of educational requirements and licensure you cannot call yourself that. It is similar to claiming to be an MD in the US.

[madlynormal]

A quick search turned up multiple job postings with Engineering titles (Software, Test, QA) in Canada. These companies list requirements being a CS/Engineering degree or equivalent experience. Apparently, these companies value production over title semantics.

I'm interested in knowing what you consider the meaning of Engineer to be.

[jimminy]

I'm not Canadian, upon looking up the actual rules it is provincial laws. The most well know restriction is in Ontaria and is restricted to the title of "professional engineer". They still frown on it and actually fought Microsoft over their certification titles.

Top result when searching was Quora [1].

My personal view, is it doesn't matter much. I often choose to refer to myself as a Developer, just because of the confusing discussions Canadian Engineers have presented in the past.

Ifind software titles to be unnecessarily inflated, both in seniority and position. The title of Developer or Programmer would be fine in many cases, unless your looking for Architectural roles (can also have similar titular restricitions). Also, many roles could easily drop Senior, often it is just used for mid-level roles requiring some degree of experience over junior roles.

The whole of title structure in the industry is very ego-driven rather than role driven. I often break my titles down to specify my focus area, e.g. Lead API Developer, which includes everything from speccing to infrastructure and tooling (which some generally use as claims of engineering).

[1] : https://www.quora.com/Only-Professional-Engineers-can-be-cal...

[jordigh]

These companies should be careful. Are they Canadian companies? Microsoft was famously fined in Canada for advertising an engineering certification when it legally was not an engineering certification:

http://www.canadianconsultingengineer.com/engineering/quebec...

The Professional Engineers of Ontario have this to say about "software engineer":

http://www.peo.on.ca/index.php/ci_id/2266/la_id/1.htm

It's not about "value production over semantics", but about legally designated professions.

Regulating engineering is more than just about the knowledge or value production associated, but it comes with an associated order you belong to and a code of ethics. There's the famous iron ring ceremony for Canadian engineers that is supposed to remind an engineer of the duties of their profession.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Ring

If people in Silicon Valley calling themselves "software engineers" actually behaved according to the engineers' code of ethics instead of running towards the self-interested libertarian utopia at all costs, perhaps our current technological landscape wouldn't have enacted all of the abuses it currently does upon the users.