[salarycommenter]

There is market rate and then there is market rate. Have you ever met a manager who didn't claim to pay market rate and pull out the old "salary data" yarn.

Managers seem to think that just because they say something their employees believe it when the reality is the employee doesn't care and will just replace the faulty manager.

[geofft]

I've always wondered how employers measure "market rate". If there were a reliable public source of market rate, negotiations would be much simpler, and they aren't. And presumably the managers themselves aren't actively interviewing at other companies to see what they'd get offered.

So I think the only good source of market rate is people (either candidates or current employees asking for counteroffers), and if you're poor at being competitive for recruits on all axes other than money, or at making it safe for employees to interview and tell you about their offers, you have poor information.

[joshyeager]

We buy market data from two sources every year. They get their data by collecting it from the companies that buy their data. Obviously that's not perfect, but it's more objective than most other methods.

That hardest part is figuring out which generic categories match our specific positions, since every company in the survey has different definitions and requirements.

Our employees seem pretty happy with the results, and we've had very few offers rejected for salary range reasons. So it seems like we're pretty close. If anything, we're probably a bit above our local market.

[frakr]

Do you use The Employers' Association by any chance?

I used to work for a company that used their data. The reports they provided did not have any technical positions included. There was no transparency on their process.

Comparing those numbers to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the salaries for anyone doing technical work were below market rate. https://www.bls.gov/bls/blswage.htm

BLS data is transparently provided and very specific.

[geofft]

What prevents an association of employees from buying this data? (Just the general unwillingness of tech employees to unionize?)

[bagels]

What sources?

[falsedan]

Towers Watson is the big one in the UK.

I worked at a place which got the salary data, and then announce that everyone was underpaid and that salaries would be adjusted 'soon'. When is 'soon'? Why, it's inaudible mumbling.

[battlebot]

The biggest thing the US needs is a management overhaul.

[ajmurmann]

What and from which countries in particular do you think the US can learn?

[willhslade]

Germany, Japan, and the UK.

Managers not MBAs is a good book that summarizes the problems with the current management culture.

Basically, by having a class of people who have never done the grunt work of a particular job, you ruin what the Army calls "Unit Cohesion".

[megablast]

Sure, Japan. Where you work 6 days a week and don't leave before the boss does, at 10pm.

The UK was no different to the US.

[ajmurmann]

Maybe there are things one could learn from Japanese managers other than the work hours?