[nrjdhsbsid]

The crazy thing is that AMP is open source and this is still happening. I've been tracking their GitHub and what is happening is that while yes, the source is open, they won't let you add anything they don't like.

Oh, and if you try to fork AMP you fail the official validators and suddenly your site isn't AMP anymore. What is happening in this case is that open source is doing nothing to stop AMP from being proprietary because it's worthless unless you have the "blessed" version.

Take for example the most obvious change, to make the original URL visible in the banner. There's tens maybe hundreds of GitHub issues on this and it's still languishing. In the rare case anyone official replies it's some bs about how it will affect the user experience or "interfere with Google's cache" in some roundabout and unspecified way. They leave a few of these issues open so that whenever you start another they can close it as a duplicate. Otherwise their repo would be overrun with them.

Open source doesn't matter if someone holds the keys to the kingdom and "validates" your sources. A dark pattern indeed.

AMP in its current form is certainly evil. The only way that could be changed is if Google opens up the ability to cache the page by a different provider with different validators.

I smell antitrust

[pawadu]

> I've been tracking their GitHub and what is happening is that while yes, the source is open, they won't let you add anything they don't like.

Well, thats basically how Android works.

And with the upcoming policy changes (in CDD and GCM) things will get even worse.

[geofft]

There's a difference with Android, though: with Android, you can modify the source and use it on your own devices (which might be not be super easy, but it's doable).

With AMP, you can modify the source and ... ... run your own search engine???

Android is software in the traditional sense. AMP is a protocol, even though it's phrased as software. The principles of free software apply to software, and protect your freedom when applied to software. They don't work right when applied to protocols.

[towo]

It's pretty much how open source works everywhere - you have to convince the maintainer to adopt your code. If they don't, you've got the options of either being sad or forking it and trying to get people to use your subjectively better version.

It's open source, not anarchist source.

[nrjdhsbsid]

In the case of AMP the only source that works with google is the official one. As soon as you fork it's not "AMP" compatible anymore.

You see the other half of AMP is completely proprietary and runs on Google's servers. It doesn't matter that you can edit AMP because the server (Google's end) will refuse to run your edited version.

[towo]

Yes, which is what I implied: open source software is fine and good if it's used in a decentralized fashion.

But if it's just a provider open sourcing the implementation of their communication protocol/operating system running on their devices, it's good for the community that they can look into it and learn; but just as well, it doesn't imply that any of the changes you're able to make actually do anything.

[pawadu]

But have anyone been able to convince the Android team of anything?

They are not even listening to the Linux team with their thousands of highly qualified developers and are essentially running their own fork of the kernel where everything has to be done The Google Way (TM).

[sjilo]

Could you tell me about those changes?

[pawadu]

I am under NDA so I cant give you specifics but the general theme of the changes are: less power to manufacturers, more to carriers.

[zeveb]

> less power to manufacturers, more to carriers.

What about the owners of the phones? I pay money — good money, quite a bit of it — for my phone. I own it. It should do exactly what I want, not what Google, Apple, Samsung, Sprint, Verizon or T-Mobile want.

[pawadu]

Well, this change will limit what Samsung is allowed to customize, maybe thats a good thing? But everyone else with get more powers.

[hydrogen18]

Isn't this just another variety of Tivoization? The platform is nominally open source, but unable to run anything other than approved code.

[jimrandomh]

Do you have a specific example of a rejected pull request or feature? It seems also possible that people outside google aren't contributing for other reasons, like lack of interest.