[kuschku]

> un-elected and un-accountable bureaucracy

So tell me, what is this? http://i.imgur.com/zhVYPwN.jpg

And what is this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhafgcPeXes

Or is it maybe actually elected, actually held accountable?

> The idea that 20 or so different people with different languages, religions, mores, histories, frames of reference, economies could somehow achieve monetary or much less political union

Aha, so how did the US do it? By the time it was formed, not even half of the people spoke a common language (There was quite a large amount of German and French immigrants in those days), it was full of groups with different religions and traditions.

[MarcusBrutus]

The US did it by virtue of it being a lot more homogeneous when it was first created. Last time I checked they didn't need any translators when they were debating the constitution, nor is the US constitution printed in 17 official translations like all EU documents and treaties are. Also, most people actually came to these shores having nothing but bad memories (if not outright contempt) for the countries they left behind and they were eager to embrace a new identity. The new land had a dominant cultural identity and they quickly aligned to it. Finally, the experience of the revolutionary war and a few more major wars down the road helped with "bonding" - to use a cute phrase. None of above conditions hold for Europe. The French are not eager to shun their national character and start speaking German and the last time they went to war they fought against the Germans and the Italians, not alongside them.

Additionally, crossing the Atlantic served as a filter to select only those people that were truly desirous of becoming Americans. Disgruntled EU voters have the nasty habit of lingering around.

[alphonsegaston]

That's a quite humorously inaccurate depiction of early American unity. Under the Articles of Confederation, the burgeoning country almost collapsed because individual states pursued independent agendas that undermined the efficacy of the whole. The British would have loved for this to continue so they could sweep in and rest back control. Thankfully, the states later organized around the more centralized, federal authority outlined in what we today call our constitution.

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Articles_of_Confe...

[CamperBob2]

By the time it was formed, not even half of the people spoke a common language

Are you counting Native Americans? I've never heard this before.

[walterstucco]

He probably meant half of the actual USA. AFAIK there were large communities of Germans, French, Dutch and Danish. Not counting African slaves.