[berntb]

So the basic problem is that the Jews and/or the democratic country are evil? Sigh... :-(

Arafat got at least two offers for a Palestinian state (at Camp David and once later), with about 91% of the West Bank iirc.

The later offer was when Barak needed Arafat's support of a peace agreement before an election (so the Palestinian side had a good negotiating position).

Arafat didn't accept either -- which was one thing. But there was no counter offer like "Give us XX and YY and customs advantages ZZ and ...". Instead Arafat started a terror campaign.

But there is no blame for all that refusal to even give a counter proposal; it is all a big Israeli conspiracy.

(Seriously, I feel a bit sick when I chat with hateful people.)

[ghostDancer]

I was only saying that Israel government lies , i have not said that jews are evil. So stop lying and putting words i have not said. I have not even said that Palestinian government is good. I feel sorry for people like you , so brainwashed that can not even see reality.

[wslh]

Saying that the Israel government lies when every government lies doesn't add anything to the discussion. The difference is that Israel in his very short history has shown that they can exchange land for peace in an extent no other country recently did after winning wars from the weaker side.

The lies you are talking about are just part of a long term negotiation until Hamas recognizes the right of Israel to exist and live in peace. Once this milestone is achieved, Israel will not have any excuse to move forward with the peace process because the Israelis, and the jewish people will not tolerate more excuses.

[ghostDancer]

See, this is a reasonable presentation of ideas, not accusing me of being hateful, thanks for being polite and stating your points. Maybe i don't agree with you, i still don't believe that Israel wants to give back anything when they are building more every year. So the exchanges of land they are so proud is returning land they have stolen before so nothing to be proud of. Apart from that i still think that Hamas is stupid not trying to reach a real peace, it would be good for all, cause having a neighbor like Israel could help to accelerate the development of a Palestinian state. IMHO the problem is that both sides think they can win and the other side lose and that makes real efforts for peace look they are in vain.