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by pdog 3448 days ago
It's win–win–win. If cities make improvements to their transportation infrastructure based on this data, ultimately it helps Uber deliver better service to its customers.
1 comments

Well except for the drivers that get paid less and less now. I mean we'll forget about all that once their self-driving vehicles start being deployed, right? Well until they kill people.

I mean don't get me wrong, the data is valuable. But this is a company that constantly says "fuck you" to the law and fair work practices. Let's keep that in mind.

There's plenty wrong with Uber. But self-driving cars killing people shouldn't be on the list - self-driving cars have the potential to save an incredible amount of lives. People will still die, but way less people.
I mean, don't get me wrong, this civil rights movement is valuable. But this is a movement that constantly says "fuck you" to the law (c.f. Rosa Parks) and fair work practices (the civil rights movement favored a "race to the bottom" between white and negro workers).

Uber is engaged in civil disobedience against unjust laws that exist to protect political insiders. When did this become a bad thing?

You have a very poor understanding of what civil disobedience is.

As MLK wrote, "One who breaks an unjust law must do so openly, lovingly, and with a willingness to accept the penalty. I submit that an individual who breaks a law that conscience tells him is unjust, and who willingly accepts the penalty of imprisonment in order to arouse the conscience of the community over its injustice, is in reality expressing the highest respect for law." [1]

That is manifestly not what Kalanick is doing. He broke laws for his own profit, has energetically avoided the penalties, demonstrates no particular interest in justice, and certainly doesn't care about the conscience of the community.

I also think the "political insiders" thing is just crocodile tears. From his behavior, Kalanick has no problem with industrial interests having outsized power; he just wants to be the one with that power.

[1] https://www.africa.upenn.edu/Articles_Gen/Letter_Birmingham....

On the contrary, Kalanick is directly appealing to the conscience of the community. Whenever regulators attempt to shut him down he appeals directly to the public: "Bill de Blasio/Shiv Sena/Telangana Taxi Association/etc wants to take away your ride!"

Many in the civil rights movement also broke laws for their own profit or other benefit; they wanted the right to work any job they were qualified for, live in any neighborhood, etc. What's wrong with that?

Does one need to be completely altruistic to oppose injustice? Victims cannot protest, only uninterested third parties?

That is a pretty gross rephrasing of wpietri's point.
I understand that my comparison is inspiring negative emotions. But that doesn't make it wrong.

Do you have an intellectual (rather than emotional) argument why my rephrasing is somehow invalid?

Self-interest is not conscience.
Wow you are actually attempting to connect Rosa Parks and the Civil Rights movement, "conscience" and "injustice" with Travis Kalanick and Uber?

That is so messed up.

The case of Rosa Parks wasn't even close to saying “fuck you” to the law, because she did immediately submit herself to the law (as did MLK and other civil rights activists that spent a lot of time in jail).

Civil disobedience not only requires submission to the law, but is most effective when the threat of punishment is existential (e.g. lengthy incarceration or death). Since Uber’s existence depends on defiance of the current laws, it is manifestly impossible that the company’s actions are in any way a form of civil disobedience.

I think part of the problem is that the parallels between Rosa Parks and Travis Kalanick are not as obvious to everyone as they are to you.
What I'm pointing out is not some moral parallel between Rosa Parks and Travis Kalanick. I'm pointing out that if djsumdog's argument is valid, it applies equally well to the civil rights movement.

This is a strong indication that his argument is invalid, nothing more.

It's perfectly consistent to believe that the civil rights movement meets one's threshold for justifiable civil disobedience, while Uber's plight does not.
Perhaps, but that's an argument that needs to be made. It wasn't.
> I'm pointing out that if djsumdog's argument is valid, it applies equally well to the civil rights movement.

The value of an argument is not a pure function of its syntactic structure but also the specific details of the argument. Context matters. Intent even matters.

The details, context and intent so far suggest that you care more about being right on the Internet than about human beings' welfare.

The first step in helping human welfare is determining what things are actually good for human welfare. If you can't construct a valid argument for X, that's a hint that X might not be good for human welfare.
Uber isn't fighting for people's rights. Not liking taxi services or the laws that protect their business isn't equivalent by any stretch.
Yes, they are. They are fighting for my right to use whichever service I like to drive me from point A to point B.
Endure the amount of abuse, beating and killing that the civil rights movement was about, and you can have your Uber. Is that a deal?