[jacquesm]

I'm aware of mono, but the 'heritage' has really put me off.

The way microsoft has behaved in the past is such that if I can avoid using stuff that they have a hand in I will.

It's true that that may 'hurt' me in the sense that C# is probably a great language, but there are so many 'great languages' that this was a luxury problem anyway.

Between Python, Clojure and more exotic stuff like Erlang and Haskell there isn't enough time already. If microsoft had been a little nicer in the past they might have had an advocate in me, but enough really is enough.

With some other big companies, such as for instance IBM I've got the feeling that they really understood and have changed their ways, with microsoft I've never lost the feeling that they still don't get that they were in the wrong and are still just trying to dance their way around the real problems without admitting that they were wrong and bettering their ways.

I think that they will only change when the last of the 'old guard' at microsoft have stepped down from day to day management positions.

[kashif]

Actually, C# is not a great language by any stretch of imagination - its just Java willing to evolve. There is some great stuff happening at Microsoft Research which drizzles down to the MS languages every so often though.

My problem is not the heritage and other superfluous stuff. I am not willing to deal with a horrible operating system. Dave Cutler and team just don't get it - surprisingly Ken, Dennis and Brian did.

[sgoraya]

"...with microsoft I've never lost the feeling that they still don't get that they were in the wrong and are still just trying to dance their way around the real problems without admitting that they were wrong and bettering their ways."

Care to elaborate? I still do not understand some of the over generalized MS bashing, especially when it comes to software development. From my experience, they have had some of the best tools and support over the years. Perfect? No way. Bloated libraries? Hell yeah, but only use parts that you need. Able to get the job done? Yes.

[I primarily used their tools when I worked for a couple of videogame studios and at university - currently using both open source and MS tools and languages]

[jacquesm]

They could be making the very best tools in the world, for all I know they are. But the toolmaker in question has a bit of a history and I haven't forgotten that just yet: http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Linux-and-Open-Source/BayStar-Confi... (sorry for the ads on that page), they just couldn't help not playing nice.

Then there was netscape, the media player issue, a bunch of FUD to various governments to get them to extend their lock-in rather than to go with open source and a series of briberies http://slashdot.org/articles/06/12/27/1423234.shtml and so on.

The tools and their quality don't enter in to it, it's the corporate conduct that I have a problem with.

[sgoraya]

The tools and their quality don't enter in to it, it's the corporate conduct that I have a problem with.

I certainly can't argue with that point and would agree to an extent. Though when working/programming I am less idealistic on this topic I suppose.

[jorgecastillo]

Here is another one.

http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/02/25/232212

[jacquesm]

Ah yes, there's that one too. I'm sure if you'd spend a day or so you could come up with a fair sized list.

[gtani]

If you're in the Python, Clojure, Erlang, Haskell playground, you'd like F#. Also, clojure and scala on .NET are pretty quiet now (e.g. (I believe) they both still do type erasure on CLR just to conform with JVM), but the potential is huge.

[rbanffy]

I am a pythonista who is learning Clojure and Erlang and I really didn't like F# that much.

That and the threat of relying on any patent Microsoft may use against me in the future scares me away from anything that comes from Redmond.