[tjic]

Woodworker.

From running two small ecommerce companies I think I've learned enough about MVP, shipping, inventory management, etc.

From 25 years as a software engineer I've learned about building tools to automate steps.

I'd pick some "hard to find / expensive niche (e.g. Greene and Greene, Art Nouveau, etc.), but offer repeatable designs, not do custom work. That would allow for lots of jigs, fixtures, using cheap machines in duplicate to eliminate setup times, etc.

...and then after growing sales and shaking the bugs out of the production, I'd hire assistants to keep cranking stuff out.

Eventually I'd allow customers to start turbing a few "knobs" on products, via a website tool (this isn't too much falling back into software, is it?), which results in customized cut lists being kicked out for my assistants. Mass customization.

[bungie4]

This is funny, I came into programming from being a high end cabinet maker. I had to give it up because I'm allergic to the components that make up the 'smell' of red oak. Which we worked with a lot.

Theirs a real satisfaction in looking at a your work at the end of the day and being able to SEE it.

[lloyd-christmas]

I've always whittled as a fun side hobby. My desire to do anything bigger is limited by a fear of the table saw. As a lefty, nothing in the shop plays nice with me. I'm too worried about losing a finger which would impact my income stream as well as my other hobby, piano. But, I still spend more time looking at joinery than I do on HN.

[derekp7]

Most of the time when someone loses a finger on a table saw, it is because they were doing something that they know better than to do, or because they didn't know that a particular action is high risk. What really helps is to initially work with someone who knows what and what not to do, so they can correct any bad techniques that you have.

Common errors are things like trying to cut a piece that is too large / awkward, resulting in the wood pinching the blade, and also getting your fingers too close to the blade. Get used to using push sticks to push the wood piece through. Typically you'd make up a couple of them with notches in the ends, or with a rubber tip. If you are doing certain types of cross cuts, the table saw has a couple tracks and a jig that runs along them, to move the piece through. Also, most important, is to set the blade height correctly, so not much of the blade is sticking out through your work piece.

Of course, I've always wanted a computerized setup, where you specify where the cut should be, and the work piece gets robotically placed on the table saw and precision cut. (they have this in some of the larger cabinet shops).

[steveax]

First day of my High School wood shop class (do they even have those anymore?), our instructor opened up a couple of packs of hot dogs and ran one through every machine in the shop. We didn't lose any fingers in that class ;-)

[mattmanser]

That you have an opinion on this and know the circumstances seems to suggest you know multiple people who have lost their fingers, which would suggest the risk is actually quite high.

[phaus]

If a completely untrained person bought an entire shop worth of power tools and just started trying to build stuff, the potential for injury is astronomical. However, there's a right way to go about it. Every shop tool has a simple set of rules to follow. Learn the proper and safe way to use things, wear appropriate attire and safety equipment, pay attention, and the risk is very low.

Powertools are made to cut/grind/drill/etc... wood, metal, and even stone into useful shapes. All of these things are significantly harder than the human body. Of course the tools capable of doing it are dangerous.

[evprop]

Never put your fingers where you wouldn't put your bollocks and you will be fine.

[derekp7]

A guy I used to work with had cut off 4 fingers on his table saw, 2 were able to be re-attached. He admitted that he was doing something stupid.

Also, when I was a kid, my Dad had almost lost the tip of his finger in a snow blower -- he was cleaning out the chute when his glove caught on the blade. Again, something that you aren't supposed to do. For myself, I've had a number of close calls -- sometimes a piece of wood gets ejected in the direction of the blade spin. I've learned to stand to the side, and now directly in front of the saw. Also learned the hard way that you don't support a board on both ends, and cut in the middle with a circular saw -- blade pinch, and a nasty bruise results. Again, if I had someone standing there that could warn me, I would have corrected my technique before getting hurt.

[eonw]

anybody that does a lot of machine/wood work knows a few friends with missing parts. whole fingers or partials.

i had a roommate for years, was a very skilled machinist... we called him "nine and a half" although he was really only missing about 2mm from his right index finger... state compensated him $10k for those 2mm's though.

[skj]

I nicked the tip of my index finger on my table saw a while ago, and all my friends called my Johnny-nine-point-nine-eight for a few weeks.

[shimon]

SawStop and Bosch both make excellent table saws with a safety retraction system.

Also, you can do a lot of woodworking with other tools, like a circular saw, track saw, miter saw, or even a simple hand saw. I've built a couple of bookcases and a built-in storage bench using only circular and hand saws, though a table saw would have made the work easier and probably straighter.

[freddyc]

Yeah, a circular saw + square will get you a long way and provide an inexpensive way to determine whether you like it enough to invest in the more expensive tools. Of course you could end up like me, still using that same circular saw years later while routinely promising yourself that next year you'll invest in a good table saw ...

[nsomaru]

Saw Stop might interest you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiYoBbEZwlk

[rl3]

That's incredible. Theoretically you could even wear gloves and the saw would stop as soon as it reached tissue. Although, some sort of conductive work gloves might serve as an additional safety layer so it doesn't even have to hit tissue.

[mkching]

In general, it's a bad idea to wear gloves when working with spinning tools. If the glove snags the wrong way, it can pull your whole hand into the tool.

[rl3]

For sure, but in this scenario I doubt snags pulling anything would be possible. In the video it was stopping the blade before it could even break the skin on fingertips.

If the safety mechanism failed though, the resulting injury would be far worse as a result of the gloves, so it might not be worth it in that regard.

[AnimalMuppet]

Ditto rings, for the same reason.

[lloyd-christmas]

That is pretty impressive. Sadly, I'm limited to shared workspaces given that I'm in an urban area. Good to know about for whenever I decide that I'm sick of the city.

[iak8god]

The table saw at the maker space / shared woodworking shop near me has a SawStop, which is a pretty good idea given the varied experience levels of users in a community space. If that's really what's keeping you from pursuing an activity of great interest to you, consider checking to see if the workspaces near you are equipped with SawStop. Even if they're not, you might persuade them to get one. Especially if you're willing to chip in.

[coldpie]

Consider hand tools. It's a bit more labor, but if you're not building for profit anyway, you may enjoy it more. I have some thoughts on this on my blog, see my profile.

[johnnycarcin]

+1 to this! I got into woodworking with the goal of just using hand tools. As mentioned there is quite a bit more labor but you can also do things like setup a bench in your basement and work while your kids sleep upstairs.

I'd highly suggest taking a look at some of the videos from Paul Sellers: https://www.youtube.com/user/PaulSellersWoodwork. My first real project was building his simple (but very functional) workbench. He is pretty opinionated so keep that in mind, but he speaks from experience.

Also keep in mind that there are really two "classes" of popular tools: western and Japanese/eastern. If you do get into woodworking I'd suggest trying out a few tools from each class. I ended up going with Japanese saws because they felt more natural to me but then using western style planes.

[jotato]

What I like about Sellers is that he doesn't try to sell you tools. He pushes the same dozen or so tools for every project and proves that you don't have to buy specialized tools for a job.

Unlike Schwarz who I feel like is always trying to get me to buy something else :/

[jotato]

+1 I got into handtool-only woodworking several years ago. I find it very relaxing building things by hand. I am starting on a 6' tall bookcase this week

[lloyd-christmas]

Thanks, that's a bunch of great info. I'll be looking forward to an update on your bench.

[coldpie]

Won't be till April at the earliest. Minnesota winters...

[wusher87]

As others have mentioned, SawStop can mitigate most of that risk (but not all - it's still possible to get kickback if you're not careful). I'd probably own a SawStop, if not for some of the questionable behavior if it's owner [1]. It's unfortunate, because they're very well made and designed saws.

You may want to check out the Bosch ReaXX, which has a similar tech in a portable job-site saw. SawStop is currently suing Bosch for patent infringement (which I don't fault them for; it was them trying to make it illegal to sell saws without their tech that didn't sit right with me).

[1] http://toolguyd.com/sawstops-stephen-gass-people-who-are-des... and a followup that's more balanced: http://toolguyd.com/sawstop-perspective-update/

[WalterBright]

Be sure to wear ear protection (the sound is loud enough to damage your hearing) and especially a face shield.

Don't work alone in the house, keep your cell phone in your pocket. I suppose this would be a great use for Amazon's Alexa, just yell for 911 (does that work for Alexa?).

[mnemotronic]

I approached workworking like software -- iterative refinement. In the physical world that left me with a pile of sawdust.

[jmadsen]

I think that's the reason I (and many programmers) enjoy gardening/farming.

Putting your hands in the soil, seeing the growth & blooms, eating your produce - very satisfying!

[BatFastard]

That's why I went into software from hardware. From software I often get immediate returns, from hardware it often took weeks.

Funny thing is before I did hardware, I was running a wood/machine shop which was satisfying, but didn't pay very well.

[icantdrive55]

I've worked as a general contractor, and a union finish carpenter. (Yes--Finish Caroenters still exits in some counties, like San Francisco. The work has changed though. It's all about speed, and specs, and laminates.)

What I found is so many people glamoririze wood working, but at the end of the day keep your desk job. Working with your hands is a dirty job. It's a physical job. You come home tired. There's a reason, even custom wood shops, are filled with immigrants.

I know very few independents that make a go of it. I know a few guys who highly specialize, and claim to make a living. For a few years, guys were making good money refinishing wood slabs, for tech bosses. That market is getting crowded. A $8000 table can be had $800 if you travel, and shop around.

I won't get in to all the downsides, but if you have some extra room buy some wood working equipemnent. You don't need to go hog wild. You don't need a cabinet saw. You should have a contractor's saw with a cast iron table. A router. Drills--don't spent a lot on fancy features. Union finishers use the cheapest plug in drills. Have an assortment of clamps. Keep your chisels sharp. You don't need every router bit made either. It's not about the tools in the end.

I really think the secret is to specializing. Do custom chairs? Get your name out there. I know one guy who makes custom dressers, but they are works of art. This guy will spend months working on a piece, and some rich guy will buy it for $180,000.

I once wanted to make custom knifes, but every guy I talked to said you won't make a living off it.

I am going to try to make custom sterling belt buckles. I've done some jewelry work, and found that a hard niche to get into. The Chinese make some realistic looking hand made stuff. Yes--they steal our original ideas--sometimes overnight.

My strategy is to get in quick, and get out if I get a bunch of copycats. I already have most of the tools.

I think a lot of us want to do something else? My dad, who was an Electrician, once said, "I wish I had a job where I could sit in a warm office for two hours in the morning, and then get in my service truck and do physical labor." He never found a job he totally liked. He died an angry man. It wasn't his job he hated so much; he was just angry about everything. My biggest fear was turning into my father.

I don't think I ever will. I had a busted a gasket in my noggin in my twenties, and don't look at the world like I used too.(bust gasket--had minor nervous breakdown in my twenties. I got better, but my perspective on life did change.)

[thebspatrol]

This reminds me of Matthias Wandel. He's really one of the most impressive woodworkers I've ever seen. It's so clear to me that he still thinks like a software engineer.

[alex_hitchins]

I was going to make the same comment. I believe he worked as a developer for RIM (Blackberry). I would urge all to check him out on YouTube. Entertaining and you will likely learn something new.

[mattdotc]

My only regret about getting into his channel is that now I have seen all of his videos and I have to wait 7 days for each new one.

His channel is great for more than just its content; it's also inspirational. My father has been a hobbyist woodworker and he has a small basement shop. Growing up I would frequently be down there with him 'helping' here and there, but never really built much of anything on my own besides a few small projects.

Watching Matthias' videos rekindled my interest in the hobby and I even picked up some new tricks along the way. It has also been great to get back into the shop with my dad and spend real quality time with him.

Matthias, if you ever read this: thanks!!!

[elzi]

Love that guy, his channel is so great.

Sometimes I think it appeals to me (and engineers in general) because spending so much time developing software... when not working on front-end/UI, it's all intangible. Just abstract bytes cast into the void. I need to make things in the physical realm more often.

[shimon]

This is more similar than it first sounds... you're proposing a variant of ecommerce that includes production of the goods. You'd still start by identifying a product niche with strong demand. You'd begin with flexible but expensive production options, then automate incrementally as you figure out which products can scale. You'd invest in technology to help you maintain an advantage over other vendors.

This is actually very similar to how semi-custom cabinets are made and sold, aside from the web interface. There is a catalog of available cabinets, and each cabinet can be customized in a variety of ways. For example, you can order a drawer + cupboard base cabinet with 2 roll trays and finished left side. The cabinets are built to order, but from a standard set of parts. They're built in a factory and shipped to the job site fully assembled. (One big maker is Masterbrand, which like GM offers many similar products under a variety of sub-brands.)

Instead of the web, though, cabinet selections are typically made by a kitchen designer, because the customer is not sufficiently skilled to take responsibility that the items ordered will actually fit. This might be a problem in woodworking, though perhaps less so for furniture.

[tjic]

yep!

[MCompeau]

I'm basically in the process of pursuing this dream. Previously I was an architect in Canada where we did a lot of large scale wood structures using sophisticated computational fabrication techniques.

These types of sophisticated projects though were fairly risky for property developers making them somewhat rare. So I struck out on my own to try to develop a small business around the most 'automatable' work I could afford to get into - which is basically a prototyping shop that offers laser cutting and engraving of wood products.

We've been fairly successful with it, and so now we're starting to develop product customizers that allow customers to order custom work which we can fabricate on demand without having to interact with the customer in person (a major source of overhead in most custom fabrication shops). Here's an early beta example of one we're working on for the wedding industry if you're interested: https://www.instantcaketopper.com

[arrmn]

So it's basically wood that people put on their cake, never saw something like this. Is common in Canada & US?

[rev_bird]

I've not seen a wooden cake topper like this, but it's very common (and used to be pretty much mandatory, if I understand right) to have something on top of the cake, usually little figurines representing the bride and groom.

[arrmn]

I've seen cake toppers for special occasion, like bride and groom, flowers but never saw a wooden one. I was wondering if wooden cake toppers are a thing over there

[creativeembassy]

I love this. My single regret about doing programming for a living is that I rarely have anything physical to show for my work at the end of the day. I've been looking at hobbies to pick up that involve making things with my hands. This is an innovative way to do both.

[wolrah]

> My single regret about doing programming for a living is that I rarely have anything physical to show for my work at the end of the day.

This is the most challenging thing about most IT jobs. I was working "maintenance" (read: janitor that occasionally builds things) at an outlet mall before I fell in to an internship that led to the VoIP/MSP job I've been working for the last decade.

I'm making a lot more money and I never have to clean up bodily fluids, but rarely does this job provide any real end-of-day satisfaction. Maybe once a month I get to work on a project that when complete I can stand back and have something tangible to be proud of.

On the other hand from just a summer of working at the outlet mall there are a half dozen things I worked on that I can see from the highway as I drive by now 12 years later. Even the cleanup work had a clearly defined "task complete" state that anyone could see.

[DaveWalk]

Amen to tangible evidence! I feel similarly about my current career, but there are two things to keep in mind: the grass is always greener, and you can do something on your own terms (hobby) that fills the same niche. Thus, woodworking, or even painting, volunteering, etc.

As for the grass being greener, it's important to keep perspective about what the former was. I think your example re: bodily fluids is a pretty good example :)

[devrelm]

I love woodworking as well, and have completed a few little projects since buying a house and finally having a garage/workshop.

But, if that's not something you have the space/money for yet, I think that cooking is a nice substitute hobby. There's a lot to learn with tools and technique, and you get the immediate satisfaction of seeing (and tasting!) your finished product.

Just be careful though -- I've injured myself many more times in the kitchen than in the garage.

[fma]

Same here. My undergrad & grad degree was Computer Engineering (Hardware focus) and Electrical Engineering. I made things (circuit boards), and programmed things that moved (robotics). But lots of money in web apps...

[conorcleary]

Look into producing beehive equipment; even if you're not a beekeeper, there is a constant and large demand for high quality, low price woodenware. Fairly easy to set up jigs and it is easy to find blueprints. By the end you'll be a beekeeper anyway ;)

[mellery451]

Luthiery specifically for me - it's a hobby currently and the thing I think about the most when I'm programming. The tooling and jig making aspect of woodworking is also very satisfying to my engineering tendencies.

[rebuilder]

I have to plug David Hurds "Left-brain lutherie" here! It's a physicist's attempt to demystify the building of guitar-family instruments, and in addition to providing a pretty in-depth look at the major components of an instrument's sound, provides many immediately practical tips on construction - for example, how to choose the proper soundhole size.

[PaulHoule]

Manufacturing of any kind is as competitive as hell.

Certainly it is possible to succeed there, but I think many manufacturers are already far ahead of the average software shop in terms of automation.

[tjic]

> Manufacturing of any kind is as competitive as hell.

Absolutely true. And this is why I was very specific about picking a high end niche, and using tons of jigs, etc.

If you try to make rocking chairs, or cabinets, or whatever, you're going to be undercut by people in Malaysia, or huge factories in North Carolina.

You need something where there is a LOT of complexity AND a relatively small market, both to serve as walls to market entrants.

[marcosdumay]

High quality and custom made stuff are always hard to find.

You normally can't build a big business on any of those niches, but it may be enough to sustain a single-person shop.

[pieperz]

+1 on the Woodworking....

I started StumpCrafters.com just a few months ago and its great. I love being out in the shop more and still getting to do a few things with code here and there.

Im not quite there with the customization yet but its in the works.

Check it out at:

https://stumpcrafters.com

https://facebook.com/stumpcrafters

https://instagram.com/stumpcrafters

https://twitter.com/stumpcrafters

edit: formating

[mrtron]

I am a bit confused what stumpcrafters is after going to the website.

There is some sort of game...and you sell these pieces of wood for the game?

[pieperz]

This page explanes it the best.

https://stumpcrafters.com/pages/what-is-the-stump-game

TLDR; The Stump Game is played with a Stump, nails, and a hammer. Win by being the last nail above the face of the stump.

[mattsnuts]

They play a similar drinking game in ski bars in Austria - you each get 3 swings of the hammer, before passing the hammer on. Last nail left buys a round. Except you have to hit the nails in with the other end of the hammer, the part for pulling out the nails.

I'm not kidding, in the middle of bars they have a big ol' tree stump full of nails

[pbhjpbhj]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqhtHbqjp8I seems to explain it better ... if you can sell people small stumps of wood for $80 I think you'll go far ;o)

[pieperz]

Shipping is part of the problem and but similar games such as cornhole cost $150-$350.

[billylindeman]

This is great. My friends and I played a similar game we called hammerschlaggen -- except instead of a hammer we used the sharp end of an axe and a real stump!

[pieperz]

My stumps are a platform for your nails and you can play any game you like or make up your own.

[pieperz]

Hammer-Schlagen® is a Trademark troll check out there site

[irrational]

Came here to say this. I have a garage full of tools (I built all of our kitchen cabinets and other built-in furniture). I'd love to have more time for woodworking.

[pmyjavec]

That doesn't really sound like a "woodworker".

[Toadsoup]

I like this. I've been thinking about a lot about software to help improve workshop efficiency or to design interesting things.

[elastic_church]

yeah software engineers are able to pursue art niches better than artists because of having more capital

they totally should