Most, if not all, languages that work on the server side eventually develop a "minimalist" "web framework" in reaction to the "bloat" of some popular fully-feature one. Particularly coordinated languages even eventually develop a barebones server backend that allows you to potentially even plug them together, like Python's WSGI.
Generally these frameworks are met with general acclamation on HN. (Followed by a lot of replies generally defending the larger frameworks, which then devolve into a couple of threads about how hard it is to pack resources together, the importance of a "blessed" ORM, and the security implications of requiring people to assemble their own security stack for things like CSRF, etc.)
Are they less worthy if they're simply built into the language from day one? A lot of recent languages are taking such a tack, after all.
Generally these frameworks are met with general acclamation on HN. (Followed by a lot of replies generally defending the larger frameworks, which then devolve into a couple of threads about how hard it is to pack resources together, the importance of a "blessed" ORM, and the security implications of requiring people to assemble their own security stack for things like CSRF, etc.)
Are they less worthy if they're simply built into the language from day one? A lot of recent languages are taking such a tack, after all.