[param]

heh, sure. I see how my comment is coming off as bitchy and is being downmodded. However, I am genuinely curious. There are people in my team that are currently just working 9-5. There is one guy who is working nights and weekends because he likes it, and then there is one guy that's working (productivity wise) 25-30 hrs a week while missing internal milestones.

Its frustrating to be in my place, because I feel sad for the nightouter when he picks up for the third guy

[potatolicious]

> "because I feel sad for the nightouter when he picks up for the third guy"

Why not talk to the night-coder? The best bosses I have ever had were the ones who actively told me to work less. It's so rare to hear that in our industry that you may just earn yourself some real loyalty.

[edit] To clarify: the guy not pulling his weight is IMHO a separate issue from the guy who works at night. If the guy not pulling his weight is forcing other people to work more though, by all means don't let that happen. Then you have two problems on your hands instead of one.

[param]

Ah, thank you. Now I feel we are on the same page. The nightcoder- talking to him is something I was not considering so far, but now am.

Could we also talk a bit more about the problem I was trying to get around to - how do you solve the second problem? How do I 'by all means don't let that happen'?

[smokinn]

You confront him.

It may make you uncomfortable but it needs to be done. You need to be up front with him and say that lately his performance has been unacceptable and that he needs to correct the situation.

Being honest about it will often fix the problem.

From your vocabulary and planned milestones and weekly status meetings I'm assuming you work for a large company. If he continues under-performing without valid reasons you start the process your company has for getting him fired. You call him in to your office to issue a formal warning with a copy given to HR and explain to him that he's on the path to getting fired if he still doesn't correct the situation. Depending on your company policy you can usually fire after 2 or 3 documented warnings. After the warning, if he still doesn't do anything about it you start putting out job offers for his position.

It's the only way his performance won't sap the energy of the entire team.

[blizkreeg]

Unless the project is the Apollo-11, I have never understood why 9-5 is not sufficient. That's 7 solid hours of work (1 hour for lunch). If pointless meetings consume a lot of that time, I get that may not be sufficient.

Personally, whenever I've put in 7-8 solid hours of coding and/or design/thinking, I'm spent for the day. Done. Over. I just want to give my brain a rest at that point. I don't think it's humanly possible to be working at peak capacity for anything before 10 hours a day. I wish modern workplaces focused more on how to create an environment/culture where employees are in "the zone" more often than just having them put in longer hours. That I believe would produce higher quality work.

This whole thing about expecting programmers to work beyond 9-6 is just sad. I have never once seen a Product Manager or Business Dev guy work late into the night.

[mvp]

It is impossible to estimate accurately. I read somewhere which seem quite valid - "if we can't predict how much time was spent developing something even when we have the finished product at hand, what chance have we got of estimating something that is still up in the air".

About managing people, the best you can do in your situation if you really care is to inspire those you think are not performing as well as they could. Explain how working passionately will ultimately benefit them. Of course, treat them as human beings first and not as resources.

[waivej]

I'm not sure I agree with the estimating thing. Though I've only met one developer/manager that is good at estimating. He works at a steady pace and doesn't cave when people want things faster. It's tough at first but once you deliver on time, they respect your estimates.

He's also the only guy that I know that buys new cars with cash. He just puts away a "car payment" every month. When the old car wears out, he buys a new one.

It's tough to manage people that aren't pulling their weight. Take time to listen to what signals they are giving. If they want to work, help remove their obstacles. If not, do what you need to so the productive people don't get dragged down.

[abstractbill]

There are people in my team that are currently just working 9-5.

Were they hired with the expectation that they would work longer than that? I ask because it's not unheard of to be told you'll be working one set of hours, and then expected to work something completely different.

If no expectations were set at all during the hiring process, that's more the company's fault than the employees' fault.

[pyre]

I think that he's more concerned with dealing with the guy that is not pulling his weight, not with motivating the 9-5'ers to work overtime.