[ap22213]

Got any resources for preschools?

I've got a serious pending problem with my youngest. She's 18 months old and already on par with an average 4-5 year old (and even older in some ways). It's really freaking my wife and I out - we cannot keep up with her curiosity and motivation to learn - we just don't have time or resources. We're worried that by the time she starts school, she's going to be so far ahead that she won't be able to relate to the other kids. She already has issues with other 18-24 month olds - she call's them babies and treats them like so. No idea what to do.

I just want her to be able to hang out with kids like herself and do what kids do. I'm not interested in turning her into a super-genius or putting pressure or her or training her or any of that. I'd rather her just be free and follow her mind for as long as possible.

[withdavidli]

Would look into Montessori school systems. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montessori_education

It's a problem being so far ahead of your peers. Average people seem dumb, and that's because comparatively they are (relative word anyway).

> I just want her to be able to hang out with kids like herself and do what kids do.

These are two separate things. Kids like herself I think you mean kids her own age, but she's not like them. More accurately kids like herself would also be on par with people 2x+ her age.

Do what kids do... which means dumbing her down, or at least in her perspective what babies do. Imagine someone wanted you, an adult, to play and act like a 5 year old for years on end.

I'm not a parent, and don't ever plan on being one. I do not claim to understand your worries and struggles. Raising a child is challenging, the results from same actions can vary greatly. You have less to draw from since your experience is going to be greatly different from the norm. Maybe talk to your parents to see how they would have wanted things to be if resources wasn't an issue. Find online groups for this (and likely stay away from people that think they're child is the greatest).

Best of luck.

[ap22213]

By the way, although my wife and I are fairly intelligent, neither of us are as intelligent as our parents. For instance, my father apparently taught himself to read and write at around 2 and started to teach himself logic and algebra soon after. At 3, he wrote a math / philosophy paper detailing a complex cosmology and metaphysics in which he used logical arguments to disprove God.

He never did much with his life - got into a lot of trouble as an adolescent and eventually settled down as a laborer. For the past 20 years he's been a recluse and sits in his studio apartment playing FPS games all day.

It's an issue of resources. As a kid, he also lived on a large rural farm, so he had no resources to do anything else. Many of my other family members are intelligent too, but they all grew up poor and ended up being poor later in life. It makes me sad.

[clairity]

this tells me that knowing you're smart can be more of a problem than being smart with no outlet, which fits nicely into my anecdata-backed perceptions. =)

e.g., i've known smart people who have gone on to have ordinary lives and it doesn't seem to have lessened their quality of life. sure, society at large didn't get as much benefit, but individual flameouts are probably one of the reasons we don't fully optimize for maximum societal contribution.

i've also known smart people for whom knowledge of their high intelligence has not only been a burden but a hindrance to their personal success and fulfillment.

the global optimum is probably not made of a bunch of local optima methinks.

[this-dang-guy]

My kids were also pretty bright, so I just taught them how to access info they were interested in... and got out of the way.

When they came to me with tough questions, we would learn together. It was fun, and they seem to have turned out ok.

[tejasmanohar]

If you want her to follow her mind, give her all the resources and let her choose. The popular choice isn't always ideal, and pushing your child in a direction they're not suited for (whether super-genius or "normal") won't do any good.

[john_other_john]

Oh, yes! I do understand, second hand, something of what you face: my friend's daughter called her contemporaries babies and bossed them around, as if playing tea parties with her dolls, too! Now she's 15...

I don't know if I was clear in my editing, because this is a thought I've first attempted to express, since reading your comment nearly 12 hours ago, since when I could hardly think of anything else. --

Just a arbitrary question: if your child speaks as if years ahead, but is not yet two, do you speak to them as their age suggests, or as their precocious age suggests?

I mean, can we as parents afford to "start acting adults" in communication, or should some more "childish" vocalisation be maintained, e.g. to affirm closeness, affection etc? Another issue, but when my mom reached her eighties, I found she couldn't engage with "adult talk", but all I had to do to get her engaging, was intone my voice as I would more a child: I realized she needed the emotional connection, but still understood the rest just fine. Maybe she was excluding the unfamiliar, a natural response to age and frailty which would make her feel unsafe outside family.

I couldn't find the word, earlier, but if I was plotting a critical path analysis for verbal engagement conducted by a mentally and linguistically 10 year old, if this was about understanding emotional contexts, there would be far greater homomorphisms in the chart I plotted, than if I was testing a child for ability to appreciate e.g. related concepts or word / idea groupings. In theory, basic emotion is simpler, but there are more paths being evaluated by a more advanced child, before life experience catches up to their intellectual age, and we measure intelligence not on the basis of finding routes to a very few states, but in way we measure intelligence by ability to distinguish paths, outcomes, and differences. We emphasize the differences, and I question whether when a child wants to know how she will feel, in any given situation, this emphasis on different paths through thought, creates a sense of dislocation or remoteness from comforting emotional states. I think this is the "big wide world, big scary wide world, effect" when our minds boggle at, say, a first sight of a major landscape or city map. There at that many possibilities, and we don't know how we feel about them. And that is us as adults.

(I didn't mean to pretend i know anything serious behind my ideas, just remembered some words that seemed to help describe my thought.)

So I'm harping on about something quite narrow here, about whether we mess up, for example by pushing kids with potential amid a tense or stressful atmosphere, among parents whose love may be felt conditional on performance (and teachers can be vile, one friend's daughter had half her school problems turn out to be ridiculous expectations from one teacher, in the one class she excelled in, so they let her flunk almost every class and this teacher pushed her, "or prove she's not stupid or lazy and just disrupting the other classes" -- sorry letting off steam, the kid's got dyslexia, not known a the time, but was killing it in history because of older family providing 24/7 oral histories at home..) anyhow, trying to return to pre-school..

For myself, this is when things happened for me, just I didn't get that memory back! So I'm reconstructing thoughts best I can...

One friend, a retired head teacher, firmly believed 5 thru 8 are most important. But I believe the 3 or 4 years before then, really are, just not educationally, but obviously affecting education.

I think exposure to adult age ranges is so important, in pre-school years. I grew up in a retirement resort demographic, small town, and exposure to friendly seniors did wonders for my social development, which was still lacking or notably disjointed well into my life. I was constantly challenged, learning how to help folk do gardening, not chores but proper growing and planting etc, whch i loved, and ettung what elderly folk want done, the right way for them is a particular skill. That was specifically very useful, later, comprehending nuanced instructions.

I realize my childhood had some lucky, even idyllic, parts to it. I have been trying to understand my life's calamities linking directly back to education an parenting, pretty much forever.

But back to this: unstructured, semi -formal engagement, and if it can be provided with individual attention, providing a variety of situations, contexts, people, challenges...

If I could create such a possibility for every child, I would, and I would require parents pushing still to my view infants, through formal education plans at that age, to justify themselves formally, before being allowed.

Social exploration, then, is even more valuable to your daughter, in my book.

If there is any way to find her friends who are older, approach parents whose kids need babysitting jobs, with the none too subtle, "you should be paying us for tuition" pitch, ,... No, I'm serious, if not serious I'd say it just like that! Young girls like to help, appreciate the role and status that that attracts to them in society, so as and when such a time comes, sell the idea as the status symbol it really is. Oh, and older kids have better toys, wondering if the older play date can supervise tablet access responsibly or not..

I can't tell from your comment, what nature your daughter's inquiry and inquisitiveness assumes, what direction it takes, whether you have local resources whether countryside or a town with a high young parent demographic, and so I've no idea how you are reaching limits. (Not no idea how you reached a limit, just no idea in what ways possibilities may be limited or available)

The key thing is what human resources do you have?

If your and your wife's parents are far away, I'm not joking, change that! If you've a brother sister or cousin house sharing in the same city, and could persuade them with cheaper rent or such like, get them moving in!

My friend's daughter, who was wowing everyone with her history appreciations, even if they were plagiarised, they were not Wikipedia rip offs, but from her own aural comprehension, is now a 15yr old right little miss, and trouble smouldering into her teen years, but when she was oh simply a whole other level of hard work - and it turns out basically her education was updended by late diagnosis for dyslexia, there's major trouble now in progressing her at all, I'm livid and still speechless how her school was run - I've known with varying degrees of social life bringing me around her parents, from when she was 2 and a half I think now, and almost shocking in her advanced and precocious demand for insights, was immeasurably helped by the variety of people in her immediate environments at home, which was a long while a larger home only ad hoc divided into apartments shared by colleagues of her dad, nobody strange at all, but a constant input from ages of 20 through 70, whom she overwhelmed with demands for what I now realize so belatedly, and not unmeassurable anger, she was unable from at school.

Yet if I have to take her any place, I immediately found a completely charming, curious, engaging, character who made me feel rotten good, when moms in parks complimented me on my friends' daughters' good behaviour. Because she was a delight of proper manners and politeness, on her own, around me. Just back home, chaos resumes. Since she has been analyzing her parents (all agree that is a vital nsurvival skill for her her since burth),usuallywhisoering excuses for them in my ear, I say she'd make a useful sociologist. Just the retaking a year at school...

I can only think, after all that, if you could move to a community where kids can get about, like I did, in our small home town (I doubt you could now, though, this was really when we rarely locked front doors), a gated community even, or if you have links to a church possibly...

We teach parents and sticvtly define in pomotional society how they are supposed to cope with everything all prim and proper, an aligned with neat values and formalized "advancement" I prefer to call it, even if merely "progression" is the uninspiring word i hear from "education professionals". But we are helped out so little what to do, in event we are faced with life unconventional in any way.

There surely must be some online - and real, physical,- communities who share experiences in wealth far beyond my little thoughts. The unmentioned benefit of my friend's family living semi communally during a real tough time, was they had powerfully articulate advocates, when CP got called by a teacher with a ugly attitude and no good reason, one time, and though that nearly became a .., well a nightmare was averted, because CP couldn't twist up two overloaded parents, as I've sadly seen happen a few other families suffer. I really doubt that sort of bonus is important or needed near you, but I mention it as how a little community real close to you, always defends its own. That safety and assurance, is priceless, i think when growing up. It's the next 16 years of your life, I guess, so you can afford to plan slowly and act carefully, and administer cures sparingly since real problems rarely show overnight.

best wishes - j

[john_other_john]

I worried – as you kinda hint yourself - you might worry yourself or your family, into a corner, and this is my third take, to try to fly under the comment length limit, please accept my apologies, I just had so much to say about self reinforcing worry from when I was a kid, from memory I had lost until this summer, from which I'm beginning to think I'm learning...

My thinking follows a year in which I regained, suddenly, memory of my childhood I had lost completely.

Does an exceptionally intelligent kid, necessarily, as if in a zero sum game, lose out emotionally and in social development?

Or is the young mind, learning how to go fast, simply slipping gears necessary to answer emotional questions?

Or was my experience of my parent’s constant worry over me, which became toxic, a over-arching problem, merely causing me to exaggerate the importance of questions that seem to fit with my “theory”?

And do parents of unusually quick infant / child minds, ever manage to provide the calm reassurance in which their child can make the approach back to emotional assurance of parents' love and stability, when lines of new inquiry into the world don't provide answers that can yet be comprehended?

I am personally convinced that young children can and sometimes do advance emotionally at a similar pace to academic measures, when very young, but we only see the results of when the brightest fail to find it so easy, because of worried or even pushy parents, and so we get developmentally imbalanced stereotypes which I do not think ought to be stereotypes. As in a truly bright kid with no social skills, is not one I think with a social deficiency, just they were not able to find links emotionally at a suitable pace for them.

I cannot imagine anything worse (or just difficult) than a mind on over drive, supercharged, forming its first connections without having a fall back safety of comfort and peace and reassurance in the atmosphere it finds. Nobody can manufacture perfect atmospheres or emotional moods, but I dare to suggest - as a point of reference at least, my father tried with some success - that meditation and related ideas might help you project the emotional calm which could provide an important means for your infant to retreat into the safety of emotional needs, and attachment to you, as parents.

I think I didn't get how many paths there are to making things feel right, and thought people were much more complex than they were. I imagined I had to make things just so, or nobody would be happy. Whilst simultaneously being told by adults I was unusually complicated little child, that made me miss so much I could have done with learning solidly, then. Unfortunately, my history was sadly littered with unfortunate events that distinctly did not assist me in self evaluation, so I may have had a more tricky time than others.

My father would every now and then declare something like "I give up you are too annoyingly difficult for me to solve", and shut whatever he was reading, and there would be a wonderful change in the atmosphere for all of us. He did know he had to give up, also, stop fretting I mean, just wasn't so great at it. He would act out those gestures with exaggerated relief, and pursue something impromptu we'd all enjoy, probably carefully prepared but who would care. He would clearly be relieved and appear delighted himself, as if he had "solved" me. We just loved he'd stopped worrying. Like they say acting out happy, even just standing the way you do when say joyous at your team scoring, triggers the emotion itself. I reckon that learning about acting, about body language improv, tones of voice etc are super useful tools in parenting. (and lots of fun, potentially, too)

The hardest thing I always can see some parents find, if I ask, or chat with or observe, is they think they make mistakes with overmuch significance. I want to joke now, that if your child gets too far ahead in learning, slow them down with existential philosophy, and ask why they know anything they appear to claim as knowledge. One of the happiest people I grew up around, said her father constantly took the mickey out of her, when she was little. Humor, with the ingredients of counter-factuals and questions of comprehension, is obviously a great socializing influence, and I truly am jealous of your predicament in one sense, that I would love to watch such a child grow up appreciating subjects thab vnt adults so poorly understand, humor in particular a important one to me, as well as interesting from a mental development, theory of mind and so on, as well.

If I may suggest one last thing, it is when I am talking through any problem with someone really stressed long term by the problem's intractability, I make sure to go over every last detail, several times different takes. I find that by being completely thorough, and running over detail with differing but complimentary thoughts, my friend rarely gets stressed again right away because they suddenly remark, "but you forgot about x, we're doomed". Oh, and when the problem is anxiety or worry not solving a actual problem (very much the case with female friends, or anyone inclined to use indirect speech) I try only to generalize that other perspectives exist, and find complimentary paths through "the data", because the main thing is to get someone "unstuck" from e.g. circular thoughts. Saying that because I think you could do well to review who is best to turn to, when you do need advice, and I learned this technique/habit from someone who helped me the most, and I think when truly worried deeply (as one always is about a child's development) then at the time you are worried, just I wouldn't want to hear any "actual answers" or advice, because i'd be in a bad place to evaluate real useful information or views. I figure I can always ask again or in the morning, but it's not great to hold on to ideas of fixes to longstanding problems, when you are low about them. If you can, try to assemble and nurture friends and colleagues with the "basic equipment" you need around you, and make sure to evaluate, alongside your wife, what you both think of the quality and value of such support, if you do find it useful. (From experience, I must say when it comes to kids, social factors are really important, who advises can become more important than any other factor, in-laws usually teach you this son as your baby is born, but it’s worth noting more widely, how political advice about child rearing can be, and having a strategy to appreciate that can help reduce stress, get more people onboard, avoid comments such as “no wonder he’s stressed about your baby, just look what he’s doing!. Irrational, sure, but human stuff like this demands proactive approaches) I sincerely doubt I could be of any help or guidance, but since the related areas have been very much on my mind, a good while, I'd be delighted to _try, or be a sounding board, if you felt someone out of the loop appropriate, and I'll add my email to my profile, if you wish, by reply. (Literally only if you thought there was some unlikely lead in my comment, or a once in blue moon exchange might offer a alternate thread to follow, but I feel I’m merely flattering myself by offering, it’s just your use of words and seriousness of problem, the way you put it, well if you are as concerned, I read HN daily, and will check for any replies, the subject is real close to me)

I really do think we get early development sorely wrong, generally, for kids with exceptional absolute or relative ability. I mean, in the sense of we are missing something, even maybe for a reason like cognitive dissonance, or something actually simple we've not considered. My line of inquiry is into how "hard" intellectual tasks are versus emotional "reasoning". Just Friday, chat came up about the kind of rehabilitation courses they put felons through, typically titles such as "emotional reasoning", and my argument was that if we got emotions right, they wouldn't require "artificial" reasoning, that we need a more direct interface or language, or means to learn to control without reasoning, as evidenced by breathing exercises e.g.. The subject is beyond me, but it's one I will continue to try to study, as it does seem vital to me, one day, hopefully. It’s with the same level of hope, that I do hope I may have added something, however little, of use to your efforts. If nothing else, please take this away: I so wish my pop ever asked or was able to ask what best to do about me, on HN or something like it back in the day, so I'm rotten jealous of your parenting, as a adult and a grown up child! All my best wishes – j

[mncharity]

Some thoughts, with the caveat that it's very not my field.

> cannot keep up

Different approaches can have very different demands. Some parents it seems, write out lesson plans -- lots of effort. Or instead, you can support, and mentor, and be an example, and otherwise "get out of the way" -- smaller and more flexible effort.

My fuzzy recollection is, one reason families without a higher-ed background, have kids that achieve less, is that the parents are more likely to believe, and teach their kids, that education is something that school is going to do for you. To you. Rather than something you have to create for yourself. With school sometimes helping, and often not. So one hears of community college students, protesting in frustration "I've paid you, so why haven't you successfully taught me yet?" Interestingly, a similar issue shows up with Ivy League students, who have had excellent teachers presenting knowledge well, and now lack the motivation and skills, to themselves grapple with a body of knowledge, and wrestle understanding from it. "They expect me to spoon feed them" an instructor said. So the reason for mentioning this... perhaps thinking of yourself in a "supportive" role, rather than a "school teacher"-ish role, might be useful?

Also... I knew a toddler, with their own toddler-high kitchen snack shelf. And they learned to pour cheerios, and water. More or less neatly. And two years later, that was all gone, and the parent was doing everything themselves. Almost passive "spoon feeding". So both the learning had stopped, and the parent was more busy. When young, so much can be a "learning opportunity", that "here's a way to save time", can at least sometimes be made into one. For a double win.

> by the time she starts school, she's going to be so far ahead that she won't be able to relate to the other kids

Some schools have multiple grades in the same classroom. Which can help.

> No idea what to do.

I've been told there are very helpful discussion mailinglists for parents of "gifted children". With supportive communities.

And I'd be unsurprised if some programs like http://cty.jhu.edu/ are used to getting "heellpp!!" emails, and sending out a resources packet. Or have it on the website? See comment below by dsjoerg.

> hang out with kids like herself and do what kids do

Just brainstorming... perhaps introduce the concept that "different people are different, and good for different things"? Grandma with walker can't play tag in the park, but can read stories. Some adults like talking with kids, and some don't. The librarian can talk about books, but can't make you sandwich, or show you how to do it. Some dogs you can pet, others only say hi to. Some kids do and like talking about activity X, and others don't care about X but like Y. Which is frustrating when you want to do something particular, and the person at hand doesn't. But looking for common ground is an important life skill. As illustrated by other comments on this page.

Good luck. Definitely connect up with communities of parents facing similar issues.