[laumars]

Thanks for the insight. I don't disagree your point per se. If war could be accomplished without further harming those citizens then I might agree. Or if war brought about positive change then maybe you could justify the means. But sadly we've seen time and time again that destabilising governments through instigating war - even horrible despotic regiems like the aforementioned - usually ends up with more long term conflict.

I should add that I'm against starting wars but not against retaliating, even ending the war, if and when required.

[AnimalMuppet]

In the cases of Germany and Japan, we won very thoroughly, and then re-did their government and society very thoroughly. In the case of Iraq, we won very thoroughly, and then decided that we should not re-do their government and society. There may not have been the political will to do anything else, but that turned out to be less than effective at transforming Iraq.

[chrishacken]

"To date, the U.S. has spent more than $60 billion in reconstruction grants to help Iraq get back on its feet after the country was broken by more than two decades of war, sanctions and dictatorship. That works out to about $15 million a day. And yet Iraq's government is rife with corruption and infighting." http://www.cbsnews.com/news/much-of-60b-from-us-to-rebuild-i...

[AnimalMuppet]

I didn't say we didn't spend money. But if you look at what we did to Germany and Japan, the extent of the control of our occupation, rebuilding their government from the ground up for most of a decade, there's no comparison with Iraq. We wanted to have few people there, and not for long. And it didn't work.

[mikeash]

I think a big factor in the relative ease of turning Germany and Japan to our side was killing millions of them first, and especially the men of fighting age. Nothing quite says "you should probably not rebel against our occupation" like slaughtering the people who would be fighting, and wrecking entire cities in the process.

Of course, such techniques would have been a tough sell in 2003. (And rightfully so.)

[maxerickson]

It's been postulated that purging the Ba'ath Party made rebuilding Iraq more difficult.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De-Ba'athification

The argument goes that a more measured policy could still have eliminated most of the bad actors while maintaining a higher level of governance and services.

[astrodust]

In Germany and Japan the police and political infrastructure was left mostly intact, and people were dismissed or arrested after being investigated.

In Iraq the entire government including the police were basically disbanded without warning which lead to immediate chaos.