[nathancahill]

So the first 2 are rebooting and making sure it has power. The third is "up to date". I do quite a bit of tech support for my family and neither of those issues are really issues. The #1 issue for me is "this free app I installed wanted to install a browser addon and now I see ads everywhere". The #2 is "this free app I installed hijacks everything on my Mac to show ads".

I've spent countless hours educating them about malware, but how can they know that the app that promises to make their computer fast again is malware?

[coroxout]

I had the opposite problem recently: how can they know that things are not malware?

My dad complained that his laptop would pop up "strange pictures" and ask if he "liked what he saw" and that they kept coming up even though he always said no.

I thought he'd acquired some sort of malware popping up fake dating site ads, but it turned out that he had upgraded to Windows 10 and was referring to the scenic photos it now shows at the login prompt/unlock screen...

[mcherm]

That is actually one of the better stories of family tech support that I have heard. I laughed out loud, but in sympathy, not maliciously. Thanks for sharing!

[ekianjo]

The best thing I ever found to reduce the risk of malware is to move them to a Linux distro. The risk is not zero but from a user perspective I install the software they need from package repositories remotely, and that more or less settles it.

Of course this is not for everyone, but for folks who for the most only need a browser a Linux distro is a good choice.

[sgk284]

For folks who mostly just need a browser and for whom malware is a risk, you really can't do better than an iPad.

I love Linux, but there really is no beating an iPad if you need a PC-approximate that is absurdly low maintenance.

[rudedogg]

There's also CloudReady, it's based on Chromium OS. I installed it on a relatives computer after making sure they just needed a browser, and so far so good. It's been around 4-6 months and they said it's working fine.

https://www.neverware.com/#introtext-3

[beefsack]

An iPad is an expensive solution if they've already got a PC, and Linux is a great free way to resurrect computers that the commercial operating systems have left behind.

[adav]

That depends on how much you value your own personal time setting their system up and maintaining it. An iPad might have a greater up front cost, but the time savings could make it a comparative bargain over the lifetime of the device.

[brokenmachine]

iPads are not maintenance and support free.

I would personally rather support a linux machine that I can remotely connect to, give them icons on the desktop, etc, than an iPad.

[chapium]

Not so expensive when you consider support.

[eli]

A chromebook is cheaper and, IMHO, better for most users.

[pvg]

What do you think makes it better? It's not unusual to see non-technical users of all ages using an iPad. You never see them using a chromebook.

[hawski]

- Built-in keyboard,

- many times desktop browser will be more compatible,

- you can install additional safety browser extensions beyond adblocker,

- Chrome Remote Desktop for remote service,

- updates on ChromeOS are entirely seamless - just reboot the machine every once in a while.

[pvg]

Almost all of this is of no practical importance to 'many users'. They're nice-to-haves for technical users.

[andybak]

Did you mean to imply there was a logical connection? I'm not sure how 'perceived usage' relates to 'quality'? Surely the two questions are orthogonal? i.e. the less used solution might still be 'better'.

[pvg]

No, I was asking what I typed. It wasn't a cleverly veiled challenge to derive what I could have meant from first principles.

[p10_user]

My parents hardly ever use a desktop computer since getting tablets and smart phones, but they still need and use one for business activities (self employment Excel entries, scanning and emailing documents, taxes). So while I wholeheartedly agree with you, I don't think the tablet can necessarily 100% eliminate the need for a desktop computer.

[ekianjo]

> For folks who mostly just need a browser and for whom malware is a risk, you really can't do better than an iPad.

Yup, I agree, but some folks prefer a physical keyboard and an Ipad + bluetooth keyboard is not really super convenient.

[xur17]

A chromebook is a pretty good alternative.

[ekianjo]

True. But Linux distros can run on more hardware I believe.

[intrasight]

iPads are great. But what beats it is a Fire HD8. I got one for me and for my mother-in-law on CyberMonday for $56 each. That's about 1/10th the price of an iPad. I did not login to Amazon. I did install Chrome and VLC so she has music, videos, and the web - all one needs on such a device. Hopefully it gets rooted soon so I can install a generic Android ROM.

[jethro_tell]

What sort of OS support updates is that getting?

[intrasight]

OTA OS updates still occur on Fire tablet even if you don't register. I've disabled them via OpenDns in case the current OS version becomes rootable.

[jessriedel]

If your solution to malware problems with an unsophisticated user is to just cripple their ability to install anything, why not let instead let them keep Windows/Mac and give them an account with minimal privileges?

[webmaven]

Because then the unsophisticated user will constantly ask to have $RANDOM_SOFTWARE installed. Admittedly, having to say "no" to those requests up front is preferable to having to remove malware infestations later, but it is still annoying and can cause unnecessary friction in personal relationships.

There are several ways switching an unsophisticated user reduces this problem:

- Ads for malware-laden $RANDOM_SOFTWARE downloads aren't targeted at Linux desktops in the first place.

- The ads that mimic UI widgets don't match anything in the desktop UI, making them much easier for unsophisticated users to identify as suspect.

- Saying that $RANDOM_SOFTWARE they want to install isn't Linux-compatible (which admittedly does generate moderate pressure to switch back) is usually a more acceptable answer than "No, I won't install that malware-riddled piece of crap for you", however gently worded.

[headmelted]

These issues confirmed by personal experience.

I switched over my father-in-law's laptop to Chromium OS for this exact reason.

(mostly) automatic updates.

no malware.

zero configuration to allow for breaking anything.

no "can I install XX?" questions. The answer is always "if it's in the chrome store".

A good browser does everything he needs.

[jjnoakes]

Because he is probably way more familiar with remote administration of a Linux machine.

[ekianjo]

Precisely.

[mclifton]

That's how I set up the in-laws laptop with Windows 10. I kept all admin privileges in a separate account with a password only I know. They both get their own unprivileged user accounts, with the standard protections turned on (Firewall, Defender). Haven't had an issue so far, and it's been about 6 months.

[andrepd]

Cripple their ability to install anything? What are you suggesting?

[mhurron]

How do you install TurboTax on Linux? None of the software they have, none of the software anyone they know uses will install on their Linux machine.

Very quickly most will get the idea that the computer is broken and you need to come and fix it because you were the one that broke it.

[sidarape]

>How do you install TurboTax on Linux?

FYI, since a few years, TurboTax has an online version that I use on Linux.

[mhurron]

I used TurboTax as an example simply because I have the disk siting on my desk right now.

[funnyfacts365]

Then you charge them money and do as they ask. Or they can go ask someone else to do it for free, maybe that friend who recommended the software that doesn't run on Linux, given that they know better than you...

[mhurron]

If you want to throw a wedge in between you and your family over this that's fine, but you did break it by preventing them from doing what they wanted with their computer.

[nathancahill]

I can't edit my comment anymore, but I should have been clear. My family is relatively tech-savy: My father is a photographer and a power user in a handful of Adobe apps. He manages backup disk arrays and can debug most common computer problems.

The real issue is that malware (adware?) is so damn convincing that he honestly believes it will make his 2 year old computer cleaner/better/faster/longer battery life. Once these apps are installed, they set themselves up in /Library/LaunchDaemons, /Library/LaunchAgents, browser addons, default search engines and several other places and they are absolutely a pain to get rid of over the phone.

So no, the solution for them is not, switch to Chromebooks. Ideally Apple would update their existing malware rules to include these "legitimate" but extremely shady apps.

[spullara]

Restrict them to installing only from the Mac App Store.