[stymaar]

> Let's just say that it's hard to make anything past 2000 EUR per month after taxes in Paris.

Really ? Shortly after I graduated, I've been hired at 2700€ (net salary minus income tax). If you have professional experience and are paid below 2500€, you really need a new job ! (all my friends are hiring, feel free to contact me on twitter)

[user5994461]

Not possible. That's 55k€ gross over 13 months.

That's a hard number to get for someone with 5-10 years experience. Sorry to say but there is no way you got that after graduation ^^

Even if you are part of the "privileged schools" with a special network of friends and "copinage", in finance. That's really really tough.

Would you mind sharing the gross salary number actually written on the contract and the name of the company and the careers page :D ?

> If you have professional experience and are paid below 2500€, you really need a new job ! (all my friends are hiring, feel free to contact me on twitter).

I had some professional experiences at the time and there was no way I'd get anywhere near that.

I've left the country since because I'd rather leave the street than live in the street.

Let's talk business. Let's imagine for a minute a guy who is handling the core trading infrastructure, for a financial institution, responsible for over 1 bazillion dollar in assets.

What kind of career would you or your friends offer back in France for that kind of profile?

[stymaar]

> Not possible. That's 55k€ gross over 13 months.

As I already replied to your other comment, your calculation is flawed (partially because of your 13 month stuff but not only)

> Even if you are part of the "privileged schools" with a special network of friends and "copinage", in finance.

I'm from that kind of school, and in finance you don't really need network or "copinage" to get 55k a year. With it, a few manage to reach above 100k.

> Let's imagine for a minute a guy who is handling the core trading infrastructure, for a financial institution, responsible for over 1 bazillion dollar in assets.

I'm not really in the financial business, but I'm not sure you could find work in «trading infrastructure» here in Paris. Maybe BNP has some stuff, but I know many banks have settled in London for that part of their business.

That being said, you could easily find a job above 60k in Paris with this background. Streamroot[1] had a position for this exact profile several month ago. Of course it's probably not much compared to what you earn in the trading business, but saying that 2500€ a month is impossible in Paris is just wrong nowadays.

I don't know how the market was several years ago, but I think you really underestimate the shortage of developers in Paris at the moment.

[1] https://www.streamroot.io/careers

[user5994461]

All the SSII and the few dev shops I've seen are doing 13 months. Just my experience ^^

> I'm from that kind of school, and in finance you don't really need network or "copinage" to get 55k a year. With it, a few manage to reach above 100k.

I just checked your linkedin (and you should see mine). You're from the Ecole Centrale Paris. You absolutely have the network and you're privileged. You absolutely underestimate how hard it is to get a job from someone who is not from one of these schools, didn't study in Paris and has no friend/family in Paris.

> With it, a few manage to reach above 100k.

Yeah sure the legendary top 1% that every one heard about. Do you actually know the guy and checked the payslip?

Either way. It's both non representative AND it's still not on-par with London/SV for the cream of the crop.

> I'm not really in the financial business, but I'm not sure you could find work in «trading infrastructure» here in Paris.

I don't care especially about financial businesses. It's just one offer ready-to-sign I have on my desk. I try to make a collection of those. I guess it's like people who came from desert that now hoard water... I come from a job desert and I hoard job offers to maintain my mental sanity :D

This is really just one of the many jobs in there. I knew noone, I have zero network. I sent a few resumes and I got that.

That's the way it works in London. That's not the way it works in France :(

> That being said, you could easily find a job above 60k in Paris with this background.

With the taxes and costs of living. I estimate 60k€ in Paris to be like £50k in London (possibly less).

If we go higher, the difference will becomes more dramatic. No point to have a good salary in France with all the taxes, it's just stealing everything.

> but saying that 2500€ a month is impossible in Paris is just wrong nowadays.

There is a hundred people every year, who are in Paris, from the top schools in Paris, who may approach that. I'm not saying it's impossible. I'd say it's very limited and Paris sucks for the rest of the world.

> Of course it's probably not much compared to what you earn in the trading business

Way more or way less than what you think. It could go either way. But I'm still young and whatever I do now is just a step on the infinite ladder of the universe :D

> I don't know how the market was several years ago, but I think you really underestimate the shortage of developers in Paris at the moment.

0) A shortage that only applies to dudes from centrale and normale. Too bad for me.

1) There is no shortage in France. There is no money and there is no good company.

2) What are the odds of a good position in Paris without knowing the right people? High risk, low reward.

4) Even if France paid on-par. The tax would hurt so bad that it would still suck. Better make money elsewhere that doesn't steal it right away.

5) There is no such thing as a "shortage", the only thing is an "over abundance of companies who pays shit". Obviously, the international markets has increased my standards :D

6) In SV/NY/London. There is a small [but very real] market for the top talent, the few guys who knows what they are doing and what they're worth and are ambitious enough to pursue it. There are real options for the top 1%, in Paris there aren't.

Conclusion:

Your linkedin profile says that you're looking for a job, in France or abroad. You just surrendered. Even you, you do NOT believe in your country :p