[jonathankoren]

But why should they need to? I don't know how my car works, but I drive. I don't know how my camera works, but I use it. I don't know how my TV works, but I use it.

You're just old, complaining about how times have changed.

[flukus]

> I don't know how my camera works, but I use it.

That's an excellent example of how computer literacy could improve things. People manage their cameras and photo libraries with whatever godawful software comes with their camera or OEM laptop. When they get a new phone/laptop with different software they have to learn from scratch.

If the new what files and folders were they could just navigate to the directory and copy the files, maybe even do it from the cli that they could then script, saving themselves some future effort. But instead of expecting them to learn something moderately difficult (ie, something we can teach 1st graders) we pander to them and make them learn something just as difficult several times over. It's not surprising people switch off and don't want to learn.

> I don't know how my car works

I think you've vastly underestimating how much you know about cars and how much of that operating knowledge you need every single time you drive it. Everything from requiring petrol to what happens when you push the brake pedal to the road rules. In fact, I bet you could even tell me some road rules from places you've never visited.

You might not know the details of how an internal combustion engine works, but I'm not suggesting most people should learn the inner details of how a cpu or hard disk works, just to learn how to drive their machine.

[logfromblammo]

I know, in theory, how to build and service an internal combustion engine. I just don't want to pry my arse out of my comfy chair and get my hands dirty. Also, I don't own the necessary tools, because I don't find IC engines to be remunerative or fun.

So I have never done much more than swap a flat tire for a spare, as a field repair. Why then do I get so pissed off when my regular mechanic tells me that a certain repair can only be done at a dealership? I wasn't going to do it myself anyway.

Because it means that I can't turn off the "check engine light", which sends my spouse spinning off into a fantasyland wherein the car violently explodes upon reaching 50 mph, or abruptly shuts down on a dark desert highway in the middle of a war between goblins and elves. Meanwhile, the "check engine light" in my daily driver has been on continuously for more than a year, because I know what the problem is, that it isn't serious, and that repairing it would be more expensive than just ignoring it until gas prices rise above $4/gal, or until it can be added on to another repair that would already require putting it up on a lift and dropping out the gas tank.

A computer does not have a "check engine light". It has an authentic-looking popup that says "Your computer is infected! Click here to download and install the Definitely-Not-a-Malware Toolbar to fix it. (And there's no need to bother your tech-savvy friend about this one....)"

[jonathankoren]

Why would anyone need a bespoke command line program to manage photos in 2016? I'm really confused by what problem you think people have that they themselves don't think they have.

Pandering because they're not interested in your hobby? What type of arrogance is this? You could make this same argument about literally anything.

Look. At the start your lamenting that people don't write their own programs instead "godawful" OEM software, that they know how to use because they do use it. Then in the second part, you say that it's cool to not know how an internal combustion engine works, because I know how to drive. That's shifting the bar. They are as you say, "driving their machine" by using the "godawful" OEM software. They're solving their need. Why can't you just respect that?

[flukus]

The aren't solving their need, their solving the particular subset that their software allows, they think it's a hardware limitation.

[4ndr3vv]

> But why should they need to?

Because that's what this whole article is discussing: computer skills.

Your examples reference appliances; cars drive, cameras take pictures, TVs play stuff. Computers support multiple tasks.

Unless you expect all computer based work in the future to be run though bespoke single function apps that have one giant button, people are going to keep needing these skills.

[jonathankoren]

I suggest you look at your phone, because giant button single use apps is exactly what we have.

Taking a photo? Tape the picture of the camera, and then tap the giant button. Sending a message? Tap the speech bubble, type out message, and hit the big send button. And so on, and so forth.

[4ndr3vv]

Yes, but this isn't work. Work is more discrete, less specific; I very much doubt we could have such simple apps that could support the employment of ~1/3 of the population (those in the article with -1 or 0 "computer skills")

Work is where complex tasks expose themselves; tasks that sit between theses apps. If you don't have the knowledge or how-to to move between the buttons in the increasingly appified future, you're going to struggle.

[flukus]

And we build workflows around those apps by storing data in files.

[pbhjpbhj]

When you say "don't know how", what do you mean?

A driver needs to know several things about how their car works - like use of oil/coolant, what the clutch does, what brakes they have, etc. - in order to drive safely.

You seem proud of your ignorance of these things?

[ermias]

I know many good drivers what oil/coolant or clutch is and heck I even don't know my brake levels being a DIY car enthusiast. They just call for service if something shows up on the dashboard or hear something.

That does not mean they are ignorant drivers as long as they know how to drive safely and make regular services according to manufacturer's guide.

[jonathankoren]

My car doesn't have a clutch. It's has an automatic transmission. i don't know what type of oil or coolent it needs, or even where to put it. I don't care. The light comes on saying it needs routine maintence, then I drive it down to the Genius Bar and give them my credit card. Problem solved. My brakes make the car stop. That's all I need to know. I don't know how a fuel injection system works either. I don't need to know any of this stuff. I get in. I press the button. I put in in D, and I go. That's pretty much all I need to know, and that's all I care to know. I get. I benefit from any additional knowledge. Could I look up where the drain plug is and what type of oil I need? Sure, but I do t want to.

Yeah. I'm proud that I don't know anything about my car, because you know what? I don't have to. That's how technology advances. You call it ignorance. I call it abstraction.

[pbhjpbhj]

If you don't know if your brakes are ABS, or what happens when ABS kicks in, or how to drive with/without ABS then IMO you don't know one of the very elemental basics about driving safely; that's what I was (poorly) communicating.

With a new car, you can probably get away with not checking the oil or knowing how to top it up (ditto the coolant); both of which are part of the UK driving test IIRC. But having the engine seize because you didn't add oil or the car over-heated can be very dangerous. All the vehicles I've owned have had manuals that describe oil/coolant/tyre checks and test them as essentials for drivers, maybe that's a UK thing - like how toasters have a leaflet telling you not to poke metal objects in them, keyless say not to run them empty, etc..

Fuel injection I don't think pertains to safe driving?

>You call it ignorance. I call it abstraction. //

Ignorance and abstraction are different. Choosing to be ignorant of the workings of your vehicle is not an abstraction per se. Like knowing how to stack Lego isn't an abstraction of the, chemical manufacturing process or physical theories involved.