[tux1968]

It's like saying, driving a car requires a neutral energy balance, you need to put in just as much gas as you burn.

While 100% true. It's not helpful information. It doesn't mention the fact that different cars burn fuel at a different rate. That some drivers can afford a higher octane fuel. And that a poorly tuned vehicle with incorrect tire pressure will require more fuel.

The point is, that there are many factors that go into weight gain and loss. And while in terms of basic physics it does indeed boil down to energy balance, that ignores a great many factors that affect both ones internal demand for more energy and ones ability to make use of ingested energy rather than turning it into fat.

[JoeAltmaier]

And yet for each of us, where we're at right now, we lose weight by eating less and exercising more that we are right now. Its a wonderfully self-calibrating system.

[irishcoffee]

Nobody likes that answer. Personal accountability sucks.

[tux1968]

It doesn't matter what people like, what matters are the facts of the situation. I'm arguing that answers like yours are self serving reinforcement of your own ideas about morality which blind you to the possibility that you're just wrong in thinking that everyone is on the same playing field.

That does NOT mean we aren't all personally responsible. It means that you should consider having compassion and less contempt for people who fail where you succeed.

Are there cases of pure gluttony and laziness leading to obesity? Damn straight there are, and I'm not arguing otherwise. But whether you believe me or not there are real challenges that _some_ fat people face that you (presumably) and I just don't have to deal with.

Think of it this way, if someone is born with only one leg. They still have all the same personal responsibility you and I have to live their life as an adult. But both of us will understand if they struggle with certain things we're able to accomplish with ease. You wouldn't dream of saying that person lacks personal accountability because he struggles with walking.

So why do you presume to know FOR SURE that everyone who is fat got that way because of a failing of personal accountability? Perhaps they were just born without a leg... so to speak...

I hope you'll reconsider your position. At least to admit there is a possibility that other people have unseen handicaps that you just don't have to deal with.

[irishcoffee]

> So why do you presume to know FOR SURE that everyone who is fat got that way because of a failing of personal accountability?

Nope. I think we both agree there are edge cases for every situation. Where I find fault with your premise is that it is presumed everyone with a "problem" (weight, anxiety, depression, etc.) all fall into the "edge-case" category, where in fact 99% of them do not. Despite that, I get annoyed when we as a people assume that the the majority of people fall into the minority group.

Being very over-weight is a symptom of a problem, not the problem itself. I posit that the same argument can be made about anxiety, or depression, et al.

> I hope you'll reconsider your position. At least to admit there is a possibility that other people have unseen handicaps that you just don't have to deal with.

Sure thing, absolutely. I'l even go as far as to say I don't need to reconsider this. I agree with your point. Where I take umbrage is with the fact that people are allowed to shirk personal responsibility, hiding under the guise of "this problem is bigger than me", when in fact is isn't. The majority take advantage of the sincere problems (missing a leg) of the minority, which to me is slap in the face of people who need the real help and attention.

[JoeAltmaier]

Sure there are corner cases. But almost everybody can lose weight almost always by simply eating less and exercising more. The rest of the billion-dollar industry preys upon our low self-control by promising some magic cure. That requires no effort.

[tux1968]

Of course. As I said above, we all have to live with our personal realities and behave as adults. But I can't help feel that your answer is exactly what I'm arguing against. It feels right, but it lacks compassion or insight into other aspects that are just as valid and germane.