[Klinky]

Are you suggesting 4-year-old children are emotionally mature enough to properly express their displeasure with something in a productive manner? Maybe some are, but others are very hair triggered with their emotions and interpret not getting their way as if they were being murdered. Perhaps working around these fatal emotion exceptions is better than running into them every day, at least until the child's brain has had time for a few major revisions.

In your second paragraph, are you suggesting there is no such thing as an amicable breakup? One where exes can still be friends? The "I don't have romantic feelings for you, but would like to remain friends" tactic is quite popular. Obviously the recipient of that message will interpret it in a variety of ways depending on their investment in the relationship. If the person has a negative reaction to it, they likely wouldn't have responded any better to "I am leaving you, goodbye" either.

[jessriedel]

> Perhaps working around these fatal emotion exceptions is better than running into them every day, at least until the child's brain has had time for a few major revisions.

Perhaps. Parenting is complicated. But we shouldn't pretend it's not a trick, and that we aren't doing something the child may rightfully resent.

> In your second paragraph, are you suggesting...

No.

> If the person has a negative reaction to it, they likely wouldn't have responded any better to "I am leaving you, goodbye" either.

The point of being honest is not necessarily because it secures the best response.

[Klinky]

If the goal of the parent is "get child to grandmas, so I can go to work to continue to take care of this child", while the child's goal is "I want to continue to watch cartoons in this very spot and not move, and I'll have a tantrum if I am told to move due to poor impulse/emotional controls in my under-developed brain, unless I am 'tricked'", then who's goals are more important? If the child resents such a "trick" later in life, then the child is still showing traits of emotional immaturity, and a lack of understanding on how the world operates.

Also don't put honesty on too high a pedestal. Being honest about every single thing can have very damaging effects and negative consequences. Having no social tact so you can ride an honesty high horse is not necessarily superior to little white lies and/or trickery.

[jessriedel]

You are attributing large sweeping claims to me that I'm not making.

[Klinky]

To be honest, I am actually not.

[manarth]

  > If the goal of the parent is "get child to grandmas"
  > while the child's goal is "I want to continue to watch cartoons"
  > who's goals are more important?

At what point/age is it OK to control someone, and when/why does that stop?

As an adult, if I want to spend the day on the sofa watching cartoons, who has the right to stop me, and drag me off somewhere else?

[Klinky]

> At what point/age is it OK to control someone, and when/why does that stop?

When they have not established an ability to control their life or take care of themselves? See how long the infant or toddler lasts without supervision. See the teenager make the best choices for their lives without the ability to earn a living(although technically I moved out at 17).

When they can afford their own self determination as defined by the society they live in?

Parental control is more of a gradient that should ease as the child gets closer to adulthood. The goal of the parent should be to make a self-sufficient independent individual. That's not always their goal though.

>As an adult, if I want to spend the day on the sofa watching cartoons, who has the right to stop me, and drag me off somewhere else?

Your landlord, mortgage company, local tax auditor would have the legal right to evict you if you failed to make good on earlier promises to pay rent, mortgage, taxes. If you're living with someone else who is paying for your ability to watch cartoons then they could probably kick you out whenever they felt like it.

[douche]

> The "I don't have romantic feelings for you, but would like to remain friends" tactic is quite popular

Has this ever, in the history of mankind, actually worked?

[Retra]

In my experience it works very well. I've had people say that to me, and I've said that to other people, and I'm relatively happy on both ends of it. In fact, I'm currently in a very healthy relationship with someone who I've said that to several years ago. So it "works" however you want to measure it. The trick is not to be 15 years old.