[crdoconnor]

>Great. But we live in reality where lots of teams are not well functioning some or all of the time

Managers abusing their power causes way more dysfunction than a lack of authority ever does.

>Unfortunately again, we live in the real world where decision making is often needed exactly because a lot of the time there are team members we can't let run rampant and make their own decisions.

That isn't what managing by consensus means. In the real world bad eggs don't "run rampant", they are reined in by peer pressure, and poor developers very often recognize that they are poor developers (except when they are designated as leaders, in which case they usually do 'run rampant').

[vidarh]

> In the real world bad eggs don't "run rampant", they are reined in by peer pressure, and poor developers very often recognize that they are poor developers

I wish I lived in your world, but clearly we live in very different worlds.

[crdoconnor]

Which developer ran rampant in your world who wasn't either in authority or favored by somebody who was?

[crpatino]

> That isn't what managing by consensus means. In the real world bad eggs don't "run rampant", they are reined in by peer pressure, and poor developers very often recognize that they are poor developers

This does not conform to my experience at all. Once you have assembled a team of solid B+ players (not great guys, but get the job done more often than not) they will laser focus in the sole B- guy in the team and designate him the "village idiot". Then, every questionable practice that is marginially better than the most visible shortcomings of the village idiot will be fair play.

The thing is, every B+ player has defects, but everyone is defective in their own particular way. But since the effects in the project are cumulative, and nobody feels empowered enough to call other people on their shortcomings they will end up building a C- product that all love to hate.

Bring in an A+ team lead or two, empower them to enforce high standards on everybody, and every other team member will either leave or grow into their A- full potential.

[crdoconnor]

>nobody feels empowered enough to call other people on their shortcomings

I've done exactly that as a non-team lead and a team lead. It doesn't require authority it just requires tact.

>Bring in an A+ team lead

Not that simple. Businesses that bring in "A+" leads often misrecognize confidence and bluster for ability and bring in overconfident B- leads who fuck up everything, including the work of developers beneath them who are better than them.