[kinkdr]

> early stage language

I keep hearing this excuse, and to be honest I don't like it. On one hand we want to expand the usage of Elm, and have Elm be taken seriously, on the other hand when we feel like we use the "early stage" language excuse.

> I'd say reducing weird syntax is a perfectly good reason

I disagree with you on this, prohibiting the users from using the prime character has nothing to do with the language's syntax.

[thatswrong0]

> On one hand we want to expand the usage of Elm, and have Elm be taken seriously, on the other hand when we feel like we use the "early stage" language excuse.

If I didn't know what changes we're referring to, it would sound like there was some critical change to the core functionality of the language.

Instead, they're removing one weird bit of syntax. It's not an excuse that it's an early stage language - it's acknowledging reality. And an upside to that reality is that making these types of changes won't upset nearly as many people as it would if it were a more mature language.

> I disagree with you on this, for me it is very worrying.

You're not explaining why. Here (https://github.com/elm-lang/elm-plans/issues/4) are three good arguments for removing it:

1. It confuses newbies.

2. It's an easy character to miss.

3. It's easy to migrate away from it.

What are your arguments for keeping it besides the fact it's already there?

[kinkdr]

> it would sound like there was some critical change to the core functionality of the language

No, I acknowledged early on, and many times, that it is a very minor thing. My only concern is that it is worrying for the future. (Using the word huge in the "huge red flag" was an exaggeration. I shouldn't have done so).

> 1. It confuses newbies.

Remove it from core language then. Having the prime character in my code, doesn't confuse anyone but me.

Is a language that allows Unicode characters for variable names confusing for newbies?

> 2. It's an easy character to miss.

Again, it is in my code.

> 3. It's easy to migrate away from it.

That's not an argument for removing something.

Again, my point is that is has to do with personal taste, yet Evan decided to force it to anybody who uses the language.

He could have very easily enforce it to core packages, and nobody would complain. But forcing it on my code, is worrying.

[matt4077]

> Remove it from core language then. Having the prime character in my code, doesn't confuse anyone but me.

Until you take your personal style to Github, or coworkers...

Evan is doing a pretty good job at managing Elm – in fact I don't know any other language except maybe Swift where the rollout is planned to such a depth.

[nv-vn]

If coworkers are unhappy with it, they can (and should) make guidelines for acceptable syntax. This is no different than using camel case in Java instead of snake case (or using the $ in identifiers, which is extremely rare). If it's a problem to use it in my code on Github, you can always use somebody else's code or fork mine to change it. Maybe we should use the compiler to force every line to have a comment so we don't have any undocumented code on Github too?

[sridca]

This is what I find troubling about Elm.

The creators see it appropriate to enforce their strange preferences with dubious reasoning. The enforcement (in standard Elm format) of a 4-sized tab[1] is just another example.

Like you said I'd not have the language community enforce what is acceptable down my throat, and that conflict of preferences within a team is best solved by making style guidelines instead of having the language community spoon-feed an authoritarian preference.

[1] https://github.com/avh4/elm-format/issues/210

[leshow]

I completely agree with you. Evan isn't happy just controlling what packages you can publish that use the native api on package.elm-lang.org, or what you can do in the language since the removal of signals, he wants to control even minute things like whether you use a fucking prime in a function name in your own code. It's ridiculous.