[w-ll]

Lets be honest; If you want 'Pro' you just gotta build a tower yourself.

IMO there is no such thing as a 'Pro' laptop. I've owned MBPs, XPSs, MSI Gaming Laptops, and they all fall short. Especially 6ish months later when I want some extra oomph but NO; Laptop; At best you can maybe upgrade RAM / Disk but thats about it.

For me, 'Pro' is being able to max out anything, swap parts/upgrade when I want or need to. And this is only possible with a tower, hell even a mini atx build can kick anything Apple is selling out of the water. And you will always be able to upgrade at your own pace / price point.

For portable, I like my Chromebooks and do like the Macbook Air. But for the Air you gotta buy it maxed out, and with the Apple extended warranty.

[basch]

>IMO there is no such thing as a 'Pro' laptop. I've owned MBPs, XPSs, MSI Gaming Laptops, and they all fall short.

You bought what I would all consider consumer laptops, and thusly feel 'pro' laptops dont exist? What you are describing are business laptops. Thinkpads, Latitudes, Precisions, Zbooks etc. You want a new wireless card, you can swap it in. Different screen model? if you venture outside the consumer market, there are varying levels of upgradability.

[w-ll]

I will give you that many brands outside of Apple will allow you to swap the wireless card, maybe another keyboard (still their keyboard), but never would I want to attempt replacing a screen in a laptop.

But this reminds me of actually the real reasone why laptops will never be pro.

Pro is in the Peripherals!!

My monitors, keyboard, and mice are all things im super picky about. And dont want tied to and priced into the core of my computer. I've used the same mouse for over decade (Microsoft Intellimouse). And keyboards, when I find a good one it will stick with me for a while, but always trying new ones. I have recently upgraded all my monitors to 4ks, but before that I was fine with my few year old proarts.

Apples trackpad is A+, but their keyboard is a F for me. Biggest Grip, the LCTRL key was at the most left key. When I use macs I always have to use the full usb wired keyboard because of LCTRL.

All the other brands trackpads and keyboards are B- at best.

These are things that no single vendor can satisfy for me, and the lockin that's required for laptops just absolutely will never make them first-class/pro machines for me.

Anecdotally, my father used to think I wasted my time 'playing with computers' when I was growing up. He'd tell me stories about how at my age he was building cars from junkyard parts. From a time long ago when you could build a beautiful car in your garage with any number of parts and some hacky engineering. Later in life, I was able to explain how my computers and software and art was very much like him building his hotrods, decorating them with flaming skulls, and I think he finally understood my interest.

If you like laptops for reasons that I dislike them, that's fine.I still wouldn't call them 'Pro' Every part of them deprecates faster than any parts that you used to build a desktop. Any and Every part.

Laptops offer nothing but faster turnovers for the brands that sell them.

[scholia]

True. Unfortunately, Apple discontinued its tower, and that leaves you with two out-of date systems -- the Mac Pro and the mini -- that are not designed to be upgradeable.

This is a problem with proprietary systems like Apple, where you have no alternative hardware supplier. If Apple doesn't want to make it, you can't have it (unless you can Hackintosh it).