| HN Mirror

I think it's more nuanced than that. Lack of proof doesn't necessarily make reports false. I wouldn't report every low-threshold hate speech incident to the police, nor do I think it's reasonable to expect every personal report to come with video evidence or a list of named witnesses. If you became a victim, would you refrain from posting it on social media just because you don't have evidence that would hold up in court?

There's a difference between being skeptical and making a blanket statement that most/all of the reports are fake. The latter itself is a claim that puts the burden of proof on you.

I never said a lack of proof necessitated falsity. It simply seems to me that when it's nearly impossible to disprove such claims (it's just someone saying something on the internet), we shouldn't lend them too much credence unless we actually know the person or have a good reason. So, whereas you think we shouldn't doubt them without good reason, I think the opposite. It's like religious people saying, prove that God doesn't exist -- well, I can't do that, but it shouldn't be my burden, it's the believer who should present evidence for belief. We believe people are innocent until proven guilty, these people are making claims against others and it's simply their word against, well, nothing. Also, I never said most or all are fake. But there definitely are claims which proved false.

> I never said a lack of proof necessitated falsity.

You did call them hoaxes, which is pretty much the same thing.

Maybe the problem is that you think everyday racism is as unlikely as the existence of God?

Also, I would add, these are not claims about "everyday racism" -- these are extraordinary claims about Trump supporters suddenly feeling emboldened and harassing people in all manner of public places in terrible ways.

It wasn't me who said hoax.

No matter how likely I believe everyday racism to be doesn't change who should carry the burden of proof for claims about it.

> It wasn't me who said hoax.

My mistake. You defended that claim by saying it doesn't carry its own burden of proof.

There can be different claims carrying their own burden of proof without taking away the other side's burden. I think it's reasonable to ask for evidence for incidences, while acknowledging that presenting evidence may often not be viable. At the same time I think it's reasonable to ask for evidence for the claim the reports are "a hoax." This is not the same as disproving God. You can actually go through the list of incidences and try to do research about every single one of them, although you won't necessarily come to a conclusive answer. (FWIW, you'd likely see that some of the reports actually come with credible evidence, pretty much already falsifying the blanket claim that they're a hoax.)

If you assert that something is a hoax, not merely that you think it's a hoax, you should absolutely be able to prove it.

I wasn't ever trying to defend his claim that it's all a giant hoax, I was just jumping into the conversation and asking why do we even believe these claims in the first place without a good reason to do so.

And to further answer your question, no, I personally wouldn't post it to social media, with evidence or without. I have accounts on all the major sites, but I rarely post anything, I'm much more of a lurker. I don't need validation on my choice to eat pizza for lunch or a hug machine of people I really don't know all that well to tell me how horrible some event in my life was that I already understand was horrible. I don't like to put my life on display in that way. I realize I'm in the minority.

That wasn't really my question. Of course if you never post on social media, the answer is easy, so let me rephrase: If you were an active social media user and became a victim, would you refrain from posting about it just because you don't have evidence that would hold up in court?

Honestly, I have a hard time putting myself in that mindset, but if I did post it, I certainly wouldn't expect everyone in the world to just believe me.