[kartman]

here they come, crawling out of the woodwork...emboldened. and this is just the beginning of who knows how long a time period..at least 4 years , maybe indefinite.

both this and parent comment who mentioned he is gay.

both pretty much saying, as long as it does not affect us and our group, let us disrupt the lives of people who came here legally and have paid taxes etc and throw them back.

its not that you are saying change the policy for new guys coming in who can then decide whether to come in- you actively want to disrupt the lives of people you probably see and work with everyday, maybe go to happy hour with.

who came here and have built a life with some long hard path to a greencard implied when they chose to take the H1 path.

today this group, tomorrow another, then the next - attack the non-enfranchised and weak, weaken the next group, attack.

and so it has begun...

i am a bit nervous of having typed this out.

fear.

[biocomputation]

>> here they come, crawling out of the woodwork...emboldened.

Who exactly is crawling out of the woodwork? People who are against H1-B because it creates profoundly unjust outcomes for American workers?

When H1-B is discussed on HN, a lot of the participants who are American citizens have written a lot of negative remarks about the program. Are you suggesting that all these people are closet racists as well?

H1-B is unpopular program with American workers because access to jobs is one of the most important elements of social mobility in the US and a hell of a lot of American workers just happen to believe that they should not have to compete with foreign nationals for economic opportunity.

I've said it many times in this thread: Access to jobs is a bedrock social justice issue in America.

No one here has made a single personal attack or nasty remark to anyone else.

Your remarks make you sound like a proper fascist, and you really should apologize.

[kartman]

one of your earlier comments can be paraphrased to "round em up and throw em out" and i am a fascist :)?

just answer this - is this what you propose: a H1b guy had been here 8 years, greencard is in process 4 years, scheduled to come in 2 more.. you want him fired and sent back home right away?

btw, i run a business. when you hire and do it right - you hire for value produced and then consider cost of worker. as a consumer you want the best prices. but you are not comfortable with how the market will ensure it delivers your want, especially in your field of work.

crawling out of woodwork refers to the closet trump supporters who did not speak up until now, there are plenty and you will see plenty more. like the guy whose comment i replied to originally. 47% and trending upwards.

trump has used extremely skilled techniques to mobilize crowds and influence people - even very intelligent people. he will continue to do so, since mob momentum is very very hard to fight against.

whether you realize it or no, its not about specific issues anymore because each of them is small by itself. you said you are gay, so just wait your turn after the H1b dudes, mexicans working fields producing our food and a few others are dealt with.

[biocomputation]

>> one of your earlier comments can be paraphrased to "round em up and throw em out" and i am a fascist :)?

No, that's not how paraphrasing works. Rewriting my remarks in that fashion is called twisting someone's words. I said H1-B should end and we should send the guest workers home.

>> just answer this - is this what you propose: a H1b guy had been here 8 years, greencard is in process 4 years, scheduled to come in 2 more.. you want him fired and sent back home right away?

Yes, but he can stay long enough to train his American replacement.

Is this unjust? It's far less unjust than making American citizens train their replacements and then sending them to the unemployment line.

[throwaway122112]

Ok, lets walk through a scenario, how that might work in practice.

- A law is enacted that says that H1b workers must leave US after training their replacement.

- One of the big five companies puts out a requirement for a Software engineer with 10 years of experience who is also a US US citizen.

Currently, there are about a thousand job openings for software engineers with 10 years of experience in all big 5 companies combined that they are not able to fill, so a change is law is not required for this and won't do any good here.

- So say they relax the rules and say anyone can apply and will get trained.

- A laid off steel plant worker applies for the position of a software engineer.

- Once hired a H1b worker starts training him for the job that he was doing. Which might take a lot of years. Nothing against steel plant workers, they are just as honest and hardworking as any engineer. It would have taken me the same number of years to be good at steel manufacturing, just the transition takes time.

Now if I am any of the top 5 companies I am thinking, it will take a decade for us to hire these replacements and make the transition, and they are right. So what do they do, they come up with their own plan. They send that H1b worker home (india/china) and say 'you know what work from home' or they send him to a third country like Ireland or Canada and get him to work from there. Effectively its a sum negative for US economy because a tax paying job has now left US.

[serge2k]

> - So say they relax the rules and say anyone can apply and will get trained. - A laid off steel plant worker applies for the position of a software engineer

This is a fantasy world. Companies aren't going to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars training people who have no experience.

[kartman]

ok, thank you for replying and making my case.