[masondixon]

> As has been described elsewhere in this thread the damage he will do (if he enacts even half of his platform) to immigrant and womens rights, America's standing in the world and free trade will outweigh a hundredfold any small gains you get from a backlash against political correctness.

But in four years will you admit you're wrong if it doesn't turn out to be the case?

No. It will go on and on and on.

I feel I respond to all this fear mongering constantly:

> immigrant rights

Immigrants are better off with stronger borders. People don't have to suspect them of being illegal. Has that occurred to anyone on the left?

> womens rights?

Trump: I oppose the use of government funds to pay for abortion.

A supreme court judge may be an issue though, but it is unlikely to reverse policy.

> America's standing in the world

It is bad at the moment.

> free trade

Both candidates oppose TPP. Canada wants to talk about NAFTA. Free trade destroys local jobs.

[domfletcher]

I disagree that it's fear mongering and I don't think it's helpful to reasonable debate to call it that. I'm trying to understand what Trump wants to do by looking at what he has said.

On immigrant rights, maybe you're right, maybe all Trump wants to do is secure the borders but he certainly hasn't done much to discourage the nasty parts of his base form thinking otherwise.

On abortion rights you're taking a massive gamble with a hard won and important right. If you're comfortable doing that in the name of marginal free speak then that's for you to decide. I'm not.

The perception of Obama abroad is pretty good still. I live in the UK so I can tell you that he's perceived as one of the few grown ups on the world political stage.

They both may be opposing TPP but only Trump was talking about putting a large tariff on Chinese steel. Irrespective of the issues with global trade, trade wars are definitely bad for everyone involved.