[masondixon]

> So is your argument that "statesmen" have failed to avoid crisis, therefore someone who is not a "statesman" will be able to better avoid crisis?

Nope. Only the fact that a "statesman" doesn't imply good foreign policy.

Trump does imply more uncertainty though I would say.

We will see. Its worth trying out. Unless you think he will launch the nukes. Which is a big part of the liberal narrative.

[prairiedogg]

Ok - thanks for clarifying.

I don't think that this assertion strengthens an argument that voting for Trump is better than voting for any other candidate.

I would argue that someone who does not have experience in public office should not be considered a viable candidate for president of the United States, much as I believe that someone who has not driven a car before should not be considered to be a driver in the Indianapolis 500 race. I don't think it's "worth trying out" someone who has never practiced a surgery to do open heart surgery on me.

I believe that a certain level of experience and track record in governance is a reasonable, basic criteria for the highest elected office in the United States. An example would be a governorship, term in congress, or a term a state legislature, something that provides a record of voting on issues that I care about, for instance - or displays some kind of governance style. Trump fails to meet this criteria.

It sounds like you and I agree that Trump implies more uncertainty, the difference in our perspectives is that you are comfortable with the uncertainty and I am not.

Is that a fair characterization of our positions based on this limited conversation?

[tommymachine]

The analogy you present, Public office : no experience as a public official :: doctor :: no experience as a doctor

I don't find it very accurate.

It might be more accurate to say public executive : corporate executive :: public doctor : doctor with a private practice

There are plenty of real concerns that arise from the accurate version, enough that here is no need to impose an inaccurate analogy to spawn more concern than is already warranted. But the one you proposed conveniently overlooks the executive nature that is in common between Trump's previous roles and the role of a president. Much of the support for Trump has come from this notion that the polite "statesmen" of recent administrations have succeeded with manners and managing their public personas, but have failed as executives, and that the populace has suffered as a result of their executive failures. This was the driving rhetoric behind the Trump campaign. It was hatred, sure, but hatred for incompetence. And this is the criticism that the left failed to effectively address. It is the reason why they lost.

You can mask over mistakes by applying inaccurate analogies, but you won't win over your critics in doing so. In politics, that's what matters. This election cycle we found out just how much.

[masondixon]

Well said.

Trump is able to say things that others cannot. He can speak freely.

In corporate politics, the biggest killer is people not being able to speak openly which creates a toxic back stabbing atmosphere.

You can see this in the Clinton Foundation from the leaked emails.

[prairiedogg]

OK, I'll accept that my analogy isn't very good.

So your argument is that someone who is a good private executive will also be a good public executive?

Let's accept that premise as given.

Is Donald Trump a good private executive?

[masondixon]

> does not have experience in public office

Reagan didn't.

They can just surround themselves with people who know.

I think its good though. The longer you spend in politics, the more favours you owe people. Political capital. Don't you get excited at the prospect of a leader not beholden to any special interests at all?

> Is that a fair characterization of our positions based on this limited conversation?

In terms of risk/reward, I see higher risk and higher reward. You see higher risk and no change in reward.

I think it is a once in a lifetime opporuntity to have someone not beholden to special interests, and doesn't owe any favours.

[dbmikus]

Reagan did: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Reagan#Early_political_...

And then he became governor of California before becoming president.

[masondixon]

Well i'll be...thanks!

[prairiedogg]

> Don't you get excited at the prospect of a leader not beholden to any special interests at all?

On paper that does sound exciting, but it's not something that I want at any cost. In specific, I don't want it badly enough to elect Donald Trump as president.

[masondixon]

What are the top 3 reasons why you dislike Trump so much? And for each of them - can you think of reasons why Trump supporters don't feel the same?

[59nadir]

> Its worth trying out.

I think this sums most of it up. People think things are getting worse and their lives very likely are, so why not try something different? It's the reason for most "unforeseen" results for ultrarightwing parties in Europe, I imagine. People want "someone who'll stir the pot".

I've never felt like that, but I can understand the sentiment, after hearing it so many times.

[masondixon]

> People want "someone who'll stir the pot".

I think Europe is stirring the pot right now. Zero border control. Horrific terrorist attacks. Its genuinely scary.

Its more a question of how can it get worse?

[BurningFrog]

How willing you are to take a chance depends on how desperate you are.

[mch82]

Here's an alternative way to think about "desperation" (not saying this is necessarily the right way).

We have a lot of people in this country who are struggling financially. Their choice of geographic location, education, and skills (things they choose) aren't lining up with the 2016 economy (which they didn't choose). They voted Republican.

We also have a lot of people who are struggling socially and financially. They were born Mexican, Muslim, or homosexual (things they are) and are scared because other people want to deport them, jail them, or kick them out of the military. They voted Democrat.

Now, the Democrats offered to work with the Republicans to give them more choices and options. The Republicans said, "No way. We're staying put and rolling the dice with your civil rights."

Is it fair that a lot of people might feel like their freedom got sold out this week?

[masondixon]

> We also have a lot of people who are struggling socially and financially. They were born Mexican, Muslim, or homosexual (things they are) and are scared because other people want to deport them, jail them, or kick them out of the military. They voted Democrat.

They only need to be scared if they are Mexican and here illegally.

Everyone else is being needlessly scared by the media and DNC.

[mch82]

What evidence helps you to feel so sure of that?

I'd like to know, because I'd like to feel as you do.

[masondixon]

I can assure you that Trump and his supporters are not the racist, xenophobes that the media has told you.

Journey over to https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/. We have great people. You will not find xenophobia or racism there.