[krschultz]

I'd say a more specific definition in this case is "people that are using real estate as a place to park money rather than as housing". In many cities like Vancouver, New York, and Miami, the money often is coming from foreign countries. With housing so limited, that has a real impact on people that live in these cities, and the benefit is provided to people that don't even live here.

[zaroth]

If people want to park money in funds tied to housing (that have returns tracking real estate) then there are funds like IYR that can do that much cheaper than actually owning a house and paying property taxes!

If someone is buying real estate and leaving the property empty just to park funds... It makes me wonder if these are funds that can't be straight up invested in an ETF and are actually being laundered in some way.

[cfraenkel]

um, yeah, that's the whole point. In addition to all the empty homes, there's so many teenagers driving around in Ferraris/Lambos it's become a joke. Sometimes Mom comes with the kid, other times it's just the kid living alone (typically with a nanny). It's mostly hot money from China. Though to be fair, there are plenty of Mom+Kid from places like Korea who are here for the education & into to the 'West'.

[hhw]

The worst part is they collect social benefits like education and healthcare without paying any income taxes into the system.

[nommm-nommm]

Presumably they pay property taxes and sales taxes (if BC has that)? That should offset some of the lack of income taxes. I'm not sure you can consider them complete freeloaders.

Also, can foreign children just move into Canada without any paperwork? I guess student visas?

[hhw]

Yes, we pay 7% PST on sales tax, which doesn't apply to groceries or restaurants, where presumably a lot of their spending would go. That's a far cry from the income taxes that should be paid if they're claiming resident status:

5.06% on the first $38,210 of taxable income, + 7.7% on the next $38,211, + 10.5% on the next $11,320, + 12.29% on the next $18,802, + 14.7% on the amount over $106,543

Generally, the ones who come over here would fit in that top tax bracket. They immigrate into the country based on a loophole in the immigrant investor program into Quebec, but then end up living here in Vancouver. As soon as they get their citizenship, the husband goes back to China and the wife and children stay here and no income is declared.

Property taxes are municipal, which does not contribute to healthcare and education. They may not be paying nothing into the system, but they certainly take more out of the system than they put in.

What makes this the most egregious is that many of them claim additional low income benefits, like discounted pharma drugs and even collect welfare once they've received citizenship.

There's also several pregnant mainland Chinese women coming into the country before they show, and having their babies here so that they get Canadian citizenship and all the benefits that entails.

Yes, it's fairly easy to get a student visa in Canada. There are tons of ESL (English as a second language) schools around downtown, with tons of latin american, middle eastern, Japanese, Korean, and mainland Chinese young people. Some of those schools are designed so that they don't actually have to show up, but still show up as enrolled for student visa requirements.

[skewart]

I always hear about these people, but I've had a hard time tracking down any data on who they are or how many properties they have bought.

I'm sure there are some wealthy Chinese people who have bought property in major cities as a way to park money. I'm just a little skeptical that it's in any way a significant driver of higher housing prices. I would be willing to bet that there are far more Canadians looking to buy housing in Vancouver than there are foreigners looking to do so.

The fundamental problem seems to be that there are more people who want to move to Vancouver than there are people who want to leave. It would be incredible if there were so many foreigners looking to buy places to park money that reducing their numbers would somehow change this fact.

[hhw]

I've lived in an older but expensive (even by Vancouver standards) neighbourhood with larger houses and lots most of my life, and many of our neighbours have been replaced by mainland Chinese with absentee husband/father.

I'd say the effects are overestimated by locals, but they are definitely around and easily observable by those who live here, and since they buy housing at the top end of the market, they skew the average home sales prices significantly upward. Realtors also espouse a "buy now or be priced out forever" which scares locals into borrowing way beyond their means, and banks in Canada are happy to loan them the money when taxpayers cover the mortgage for them (but not the home owners) through CMHC. Household debt in Canada is at record highs, worse than the US in 2008, and Vancouver is by far the most extreme example especially given that our average incomes are significantly lower than the other major Canadian cities.

[aianus]

I'm Canadian and I've never heard of anyone moving to Vancouver.

It's rainy, depressing, very expensive, and unlike SF there aren't isn't any major industry paying fat salaries to make it worth it.

[hhw]

Almost everyone new I meet moved to Vancouver from elsewhere. I often get the comment that I'm the first person they've met that grew up here.

Rain is preferable to freezing snow in most other parts of the country, and true Vancouverites don't mind it because it means fresh powder on the mountains for skiing/snowboarding, conveniently located 30 minutes from downtown and open at night with artificial lighting. And there's no place better in the summer, when there's no rain, extreme heat, humidity, or mosquitoes. Just lush green surroundings, and ocean and mountain views everywhere

[skewart]

Interesting. I've known several Canadians who've moved there from elsewhere in BC, and from Quebec. Vancouver's population has grown steadily over the last few decades[0]. Though perhaps it hasn't had anything like the population boom that, say, Calgary has, or the same kind of economic draw that SF has.

What are the places you've found your fellow Canadians tend to move to?

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Vancouver

[aianus]

> What are the places you've found your fellow Canadians tend to move to?

CS classmates: overwhelmingly San Francisco, with NYC and Seattle in second place.

Business graduates: Toronto, Chicago, New York

A few go to remote areas to work in mining etc.

But yeah, never heard of anyone moving to Vancouver unless they were originally from there and were moving back.