[advantark2]

>they were racist, sexist, or Islamophobic

This is a big issue here, and something that I don't feel that many democrats seem to understand. It wasn't a race issue, it was an immigration issue since many illegal immigrants have taken American jobs. It isn't sexist to acknowledge differences in the genders. It isn't islamophobic to see cultural issues with Islam that would cause integration issues, especially with a large influx of Islamic immigration.

Much of the issue here is because of lack of understanding of the perspective of the other side.

[woodchuck64]

> It wasn't a race issue, it was an immigration issue since many illegal immigrants have taken American jobs.

This is factually wrong. Immigrants and native workers compete for different low-skilled jobs: http://www.urban.org/urban-wire/immigrant-and-native-workers...

The big issue is the sheer amount of misinformation and falsehoods that the Trump demographic takes as truth. The lack of a good education-- and particularly the lack of a science education-- means most Trump voters are ill-equipped to distinguish fact from feel-good fiction.

[advantark2]

Yeah, and they compete for different jobs because the immigrants take jobs that otherwise would require higher pay to get workers to do.

[bduerst]

Legal immigrants must be paid more than prevailing wage.

People like to parrot Disney at this point but USCIS is closing that loophole.

[advantark2]

That is correct, which is why Trump is just trying to get rid of illegal immigration.

[bduerst]

Trump criticized an American-born judge for his Mexican heritage - he's not just against illegal immigration.

[anonasdfgz]

He didn't criticize him for his heritage. He said being mexican makes him biased on certain topics. Stop pretending tribal solidarity doesn't exist.

[woodchuck64]

That's factually wrong. Documented workers’ wages rise with increases in the share of undocumented workers in a worker’s county and employed by their employers.

Why? The law of comparative advantage says we get more productive when we have more trading partners, and the arrival of undocumented workers with limited English skills frees up low-skill American workers who can then specialize in tasks that require better English.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/artcarden/2015/08/28/how-do-ille...

[SPBesui]

> Much of the issue here is because of lack of understanding of the perspective of the other side.

This sums up pretty much every political debate ever.

[advantark2]

Absolutely true. And the first-past-the-post voting system in America amplifies the us-vs-them mentality that has created political gridlock for nearly a decade now.

[lelandbatey]

Thats been my biggest takeaway from this entire election: we need to implement "Instant Runoff Voting" as the way we vote in this country.

http://fairvote.org/

[Kronopath]

Disagree. IRV introduces some bizarre nonlinearities in the voting space that could lead to shockingly unintuitive behaviour. See these voting simulations for an example:

http://zesty.ca/voting/sim/

A better system would be something like approval voting, or condorcet, both described in the above link.

[jliptzin]

Sadly most Americans will fail to understand why IRV would be good or even how it works.

[seabee]

Case in point: http://www.fairvote.org/lessons-from-burlington

[knz]

> It wasn't a race issue, it was an immigration issue since many illegal immigrants have taken American jobs.

I don't disagree with your point but how many "hard working" Americans want to work the fields and kitchens of the country for low wages? What impact is the removal of cheap labour going to have on the cost of food?

[TheGirondin]

The country is filled with them once you leave the city - and they all turned out to vote last night.

My first two jobs were seasonal work on a potato farm and then working on the line in a packing plant. Neither of them would be available to me, and certainly not at a living wage, with a continuation of open borders.

[chronic6l]

I can assure you that the 59-60 million people who voted for Trump do not all live in the countryside. The Trump voters also live right along with you, including in Silicon Valley. As mentioned before, they don't say anything because liberals immediately call them racist bigot white supremacists, even if they are an immigrant.

[advantark2]

It looks like food prices would go up by about 16%[0], which I would be happy with if I knew that people were getting a fair wage for the labor. If there's a shortage of workers willing to work at such a low wage, then they need to raise wages.

[0]http://www.businessinsider.com/cost-deporting-undocumented-i...

[pc86]

And it's better for something to cost $11.60 and you have a minimum wage job than for that thing to cost $10 and you don't have any job. The difference is astronomical.

[knz]

Thanks for providing a reference. I agree re the need to pay a fair wage.

[pc86]

It doesn't matter how cheap the food is if you have to steal it because you don't have a job. And under-the-table wages aside, a white American dishwasher is not going to earn any more or less than a brown Mexican dishwasher.

[gaur]

> It isn't sexist to acknowledge differences in the genders.

You know that is emphatically not the kind of statement that people were concerned with when they were talking about Trump's sexism.

[erikpukinskis]

I actually don't think Donald Trump is particularly more sexist than a randomly sampled American.

What I think is sexist is the outsized hate campaign that has dogged Hillary since she became first lady. She's not notably worse by any metric than John Kerry but she receives way more vitriol.

People were saying she was literally Satan. And Bernie voters were saying she was unacceptable due to being a corrupt sellout establishment candidate, but again... John Kerry didn't receive anywhere near the level of hate.

It's a tough issue to argue though, because I'm not saying it's black and white: I'm not saying haters would've supported her if she was a man. It's more of a matter of degree: the anger and malice toward her would've been less if she was a man. The tenor of people's opposition would've been different.

For that reason I don't think you're awful if you don't believe me. There's enough ambiguity that I think you can say "let's call it an open question and focus on more irrefutable examples of sexism".

But the reason so many women are upset is this is exactly the kind of sexism they face evety day: subtle sexism that is difficult to prove, but when experienced over several decades feels undeniable.

[advantark2]

John Kerry wasn't in the running to become the DNC nominee.

[advantark2]

Please tell me then, how is Donald Trump sexist?

*Edit to those who want to downvote me, please reconsider. I am asking a serious question, not trying to argue for no reason.

[mch82]

For example when he criticized Megyn Kelly as having "blood coming out of her wherever" implying that she asked him a tough question because she was having her period.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/08/politics/donald-trump-cnn-megy...

And here is a long list of examples compiled by the Telegraph: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/politics/donald-trump-sexis...

[advantark2]

Trump insulted people from both sides. Because he may have mentioned a difference in the sexes does not mean that makes him sexist.

[arctangent]

The Hillary narrative would have you believe that because he is a man that he is inherently sexist. Only a woman could represent women effectively. And of course forget that Trump had a woman running his campaign and has many high-paid women helping to run his businesses. Many people find the truth inconvenient, hence the downvotes.

[anonasdfgz]

Trump doesn't use certain dog whistles and lacks the feminist shibboleths. That doesn't make him sexist. He has no problem hiring or working with women.

The only sexism I've seen this election has been from the hillary camp. Wouldn't it be nice to have a female president? wink wink

[hourislate]

>It wasn't a race issue, it was an immigration issue since many illegal immigrants have taken American jobs.

I'm curious, what jobs have they taken away? This was my father in laws biggest beef next to terrorism. He has been retired for close to a decade and although he is not the 1%, he is for sure in the 2-3%.

I asked him if he was thinking about taking a job at the local car wash or visiting Syria, Afghanistan, or Iraq soon?

I haven't seen a white guy cut my grass or dry my car or roof my house or lay brick or stone in at least 25 years. I actually tried to help the Mexican roofers by carrying a bundle of shingle up the ladder and almost had my wife call 911.

Is there illegal immigrants working as doctors, dentists, data scientists, engineers, nurses, financial professionals, police, fireman, teachers, computer programmers, IT Specialists, etc?

[RealGeek]

> It wasn't a race issue, it was an immigration issue since many illegal immigrants have taken American jobs.

How come a con man who employees illegal immigrants at his construction projects and manufactures his own products in China & Bangladesh is the solution for it?

[advantark2]

You can dislike a game, yet understand it enough to win. The same goes with our economy.

[RealGeek]

Trump is offering slogans, not solutions.

The truth is, factories will come back to America, but jobs won't. Across all industries, labor is being replaced by automation.

In the next 4 to 8 years, self-driving vehicles will kill millions of driving and trucking jobs. Donald has no solution for it.