[Delmania]

> . Yeah, there are some loud one saying some ridiculous things, but I refuse to believe that close to half the country hates people of color and wants to completely isolate us from the rest of the world by closing our borders. It just can't be true.

You've never been to the deep south, much the south, have you?

> 2. I believed he was the candidate with the biggest chance of winning that would bring about the biggest amount of disruption and change

Anyone who believes Trump can change things is delusional and has very little, if any grasp, of how power works. Obama was voted in on the promise of change, as all we got was a watered down health care bill and the ability for gays to get married. The ACA probably won't be repealed any time because the Republicans do not have complete control. He will do a few things, and non-White, nonchristian people will suffer, but by in large things will stay the same. The simple fact is that the people who get you elected are not the same people you need to work with to enact legislation.

[themckman]

> You've never been to the deep south, much the south, have you?

I have been to the south (maybe not the "deep south") but your general assumption that I don't have a great understanding of the people that reside there is accurate. I do understand that there actually are people who truly hate people of color. What I was really taking issue with is the label of bigotry being so readily applied to anyone who supports Trump. I just find it unfair.

Regarding your last point, I wasn't necessarily trying to say that the change and disruption would happen specifically within government or by way of the laws we might pass. I apologize if that wasn't entirely clear. The most obvious place, as I mentioned, where we might see some of this is within both of the major parties themselves and how they operate outside of government. The Democrats will start that process immediately as they were the biggest losers and the Republicans will put that on hold as they do have some control over government, but clearly their party isn't in great shape either.

[Delmania]

> I have been to the south (maybe not the "deep south") but your general assumption that I don't have a great understanding of the people that reside there is accurate. I do understand that there actually are people who truly hate people of color. What I was really taking issue with is the label of bigotry being so readily applied to anyone who supports Trump. I just find it unfair.

Talk is cheap, actions are what define you. If you vote for someone who wages a racist, xenophobic campaign, someone who was endorsed by KKK and has riled up white supremacist views, you implicitly support them.

[grzm]

"If you vote for someone who wages a racist, xenophobic campaign, someone who was endorsed by KKK and has riled up white supremacist views, you implicitly support them."

This cuts both ways. Voters had effectively a binary choice. Given the dismal favorability ratings of both major party candidates, I think we do everyone a disservice by assuming they subscribe to every view or position either candidate has ever taken or changed. People have different values and different priorities for the values that they do share with others. We don't get to mix and match our candidates.

Given how split the country is, we likely have a lot of things we can find agreement on. We need to work on finding our common goals so we can move forward and make progress.

Edit to add: I myself struggle with determining where to draw the line. What views and/or actions are intolerable? Are they context dependent? At what point do our associations taint us? Too much for this thread perhaps, but worth keeping in mind when working with people who don't hold exactly the same views as we do; in other words, living in the real world.

[paulddraper]

You do realize that a black man was just elected as president twice, by a respectable margin each time?

So...like the parent said, most Americans don't hate colored people. I do think most Americans are frustrated by Obamacare, haphazard foreign involvement, and bailouts.

[Delmania]

> So...like the parent said, most Americans don't hate colored people. I do think most Americans are frustrated by Obamacare, haphazard foreign involvement, and bailouts.

Yes, I've read similar sentiments. The problem is, regardless of your desire for "change", the man that was elected waged a campaign full of racism and xenophobia and was endorsed by the KKK. Voting for him is implicitly supporting those views.

[paulddraper]

Poppycock.

Barack Obama was endorsed by the Black Panthers. Was voting for him implicitly supporting black racial superiority?

[weberc2]

> You've never been to the deep south, much the south, have you?

Even still, the left has treated the center and right like klansmen for the last decade. Perhaps the left's fatal flaw was failing to distinguish between actual racists and those who simply didn't drink the identity-politics kool-aid.

[fuqted]

>non-white people will suffer

Please tell me how non-white Americans will suffer from the policies of Trump. I'd think, what with 65k Syrian refugees flooding in and flocking to places like California (where I live) and backed up by policies in to land them unskilled jobs, the minority demo would suffer much more than, for instance, some Americans having their illegal relatives deported for example.

[Delmania]

Are you familiar at all with the policies of the Republican party?

[toss1941]

Are you familiar at all with the actual results of the policies of the Democratic party?

[Delmania]

I am, which is why I vote for them.

To expand, the Republican party now endorses conversion therapy for homosexuals, voter ids (in other words, voter suppression), denies climate science and evolution, a flat tax rate, and tax cuts for the wealthy (because trickle down economics works so well!). I can continue on, but those policies don't help the poor, who are overwhelming minority.

[jansanchez]

> Obama was voted in on the promise of change, as all we got was a watered down health care bill and the ability for gays to get married.

While I agree with the general sentiment, specially since they had majorities and they couldn't get a much better health care bill, we got more than that. For instance:

- Consumer Financial Protection Bureau

- Dodd-Frank