[kislotnik]

Don't forget Ukraine, bro. Now we're trying to keep distance from Russia as far as we can. We had some shared history, but that's only because of our geographical proximity. Everything else - culture, traditions, ideas, language, folklore and literature is different.

[EugeneOZ]

Very funny to read this absurd. I respect Ukrainians, and we (russians) have a lot of common traditions and culture. Ask yourself, what nationality had Gogol? Is it russian or ukrainian writer? You have reasons to hate Putin, not Russia.

[lubonay]

They also have very valid reasons to hate Stalin. Since these are the most prominent heads of state of the USSR and the modern Russian Federation, they pretty much represent Russia. If you think Russia has more to offer Ukraine than genocide and invasion, maybe speak up in your own country against these things.

[EugeneOZ]

I could name few assholes from any nation, could argue that Mussolini doesn't represent italians as a nation, or french/britain/spain tyrans don't represent nobody except themselves. But I see you are deafened by hate.

[Retric]

Vladimir Putin has been ruling Russia for over 15 years and is still in charge. So for now he really does represent Russia.

[EugeneOZ]

Mmm.. Where is logical link between "15 years" and "does represent"? He will rule until death, as all dictators. It doesn't represent nothing. But if you just looking for reasons to hate Russia together with putin - nothing will help. People love and hate what they want to love or hate, arguing here is pointless.

[Retric]

I don't care even slightly about Putin, the link is as an entrenched dictator Russia's government represents his will. People who dislike Putin are completely reasonable to not want to be part of a country run by the guy.

PS: I find it odd that Dictators get a bad rap when kings get a good one.

[anthonybsd]

>Ask yourself, what nationality had Gogol?

This is just silly. It's like saying "Steven Seagal is proof that America and Russia are very close"

[magic_quotes]

No, not that silly.

The thing there is that Gogol never wrote in ukranian language, despite writing quite a few things rooted in ukrainian culture. I'm not sure whether it actually supports anything, but it is basically a russian meme at this point.

[EugeneOZ]

You better read first what Gogol was saying about that.

[kislotnik]

Each nation deserves the leader they have. Before Putin there was Stalin, before Stalin there was Lenin, before him there were tsars, before them there was the Golden Horde (that has destroyed Kyivan Rus and later collapsed and gave birth to Russia). Leave us alone, dammit :)

[EugeneOZ]

Last sentence address to Putin, please. I personally have never been thinking about anything what could offend Ukrainian sovereignty. And don't trust stories about "86%".

[aldanor]

Ukraine was pretty much never independent.

No shared history, with Kiev having been capital of Russia for 3-4 centuries?

[krzyk]

Kiev was capital of Kievan Rus', which is a different entity than the Grand Duchy of Moscow which later became Russia.

[Mikeb85]

Russia is named after the Rus people...

Ukraine literally means 'border'...

[PerfectDlite]

> Ukraine literally means 'border'...

So, Russians are not aware of Slavic languages, where 'Kraina' (as in Ukraina) means country?

[Mikeb85]

Don't know your point but https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name_of_Ukraine

[kislotnik]

As a native speaker I can assure you that the ukrainian word Krai (край) has two meanings - a land and a border. But border only of a physical thing - of a cup, table or watch. Never as a border of a country (or geo-social area), for this we have a different set of words (кордон, межа, границя)

[krzyk]

Ukraine means border, but I'm not sure if you know which country border (hint: not Russia).

[golergka]

It's like saying that Athens were the capital of Roman empire before Rome.

[logfromblammo]

...which sounds like something that every Greek person would agree with, without even an iota of doubt or shame. Some of the Greek-Americans I have known actually have said exactly that, spontaneously, and completely independently of one another.

[konart]

>folklore and literature is different. >traditions

Excuse me, but this is complete bullshit.

>some shared history

Unlike some other countries Ukraine was almost never independent.

[qaq]

You are conveniently pretending that a fringe region that overtook it's founding metropoly is somehow entitled to the history and culture of that metropoly. If US annexed England it would not suddenly become a nation with a 1000+ year history.

[kislotnik]

this. cannot upvote more, it's the actual reason we've been harassed for so many years - to make the history shared.

[konart]

No, nobody is saying that about Russia\Ukraine. Modern Russia comes from were we pushed mongols away and from Grand Duchy of Moscow (est. 1283). This, however, can't change the fact the Kievan Rus' (fell 1240) is the root for both countries.

All I was saying is that we do share more than some people thing or want to believe, just because of the recent events.

[cik2e]

Folklore, maybe not, but Ukraine does have it's own literature. Anyway, the point he is making is valid. Ukraine is fighting hard to get out from under Russia's boot.

[konart]

I wasn't saying Ukraine doesn't have it's own literature though.

[Mikeb85]

This is revisionist history if I've ever seen it. Ukraine and Russia have more in common than, say, Paris and Lyon.

[krzyk]

Ukraine has more in common with Poland (which was ruling the majority of territories where Ukraine is now) than with Russia (which took those territories from Poland in the late 18th century during the partitioning of Poland).

[Mikeb85]

This is laughable at best. Either you're from Lviv or not Ukrainian.

I'm half Ukrainian in Canada and didn't grow up learning much love for Poland. Ukrainian folk heroes fought against Poland. There's religious differences among Ukrainians because of Poland. It's the running joke that we're arch enemies.

[krzyk]

I only wrote about influence, I just said that Poland had more influence on Ukraine than Russia.

And I pretty much think that most Ukrainians hate Russia (and Soviet Union - Holodomor) more than they hate Poland.

[rangibaby]

*West Ukraine. Which is I guess the real root of the civil war and other trouble there

[krzyk]

Real root of that was in eastern Ukraine and in Russia, just look where the "rebels" (or "green men") are.

[graycrow]

There is no such thing as a civil war in Ukraine.