[labster]

Everywhere around you. You have a indoor plumbing and electricity and always-on internet, correct? You eat three squares a day, right? In global terms, you are likely to be quite wealthy. Most software developers easily make it into the world's top 5%, if not the top 1%.

[konart]

>Most software developers easily make it into the world's top 5%, if not the top 1%.

You do realise they are what they are because they made it so? Or at least becasuse their parents grandparents did. They weren't born pro developets, not a single one of them had any guaratees of being succesful or fairly paid.

And no - not all of them were born into a wealthy family of the 1% of the first world countries. You can check some noatable bios and see for yourself just how many of the so called 'world's top 5%, if not the top 1%' started at the bottom of the world.

[labster]

You seem to be attacking me for stating a fact. Who cares about why they are wealthy — people in the computer industry are astonishingly wealthy in historic or global terms.

[konart]

>astonishingly wealthy in historic or global terms

Like if we compare a junior sys.admin to some kid of the similar age from an african village that has problems with drinkable water? Yes, well, no shit.

[Chris2048]

It probably wasn't the fact, but the intent of stating that fact in context.

[ricksplat]

This is the essence of white privilege. A belief that you got there through your own hard work, smarts and gumption.

Stand back a second. Many third world countries have this in spades, but just never had your opportunities.

There is a possibility, that maybe you failed to consider, that maybe you are just "lucky". The gaping chasm of inequality that faces you is insurmountable, so you justify your privilege by telling yourself you're better.

I know that's a hard pill to swallow, because it calls into question a belief that you are in control of your life which is a scary thought. Especially for 'murca.

[laichzeit0]

And the opposite belief is that because someone has privilege they should "do something about it". White males are at the top of the ladder. It doesn't matter why. They have no need to apologize or feel guilty about it. Even if it is an indirect result of exploiting slave labor at some point in the distant past, so be it.

The current pre-Trump political zeitgeist is completely antithetical towards this. It downright seeks to eradicate patriarchy. I like Trump because he gives me the impression that if someone were to give me shit about my so-called "white privilege" and I said to them "So what, go fuck yourself" he'd have my back all the way.

The pendulum has swung.

[konart]

>This is the essence of white privilege. A belief that you got there through your own hard work, smarts and gumption.

Oh really? Lend me a minute of your time then, if you can be so kind.

My family (half russian half ukrainian) comes from Tajikistan (both parents and their parents were living and working there before USSR went down). At the time I was born (1988) Tajikistan was still part of the USSR, obviously.

When the shit hit the fan in the late 80s (civil war began in 1991) we had to move from there. While father was trying to start up his business in Cheboksary (capital of Chuvash republic in Russia) - my mother and I were living in Poltava, Ukraine. So, while Ukraine and Russia were our respective homelands - we were refugees, formally. Yet, in a matter of 4 or 5 year my father and his friends, who also made it out from Tajikistan torn by a war, were able to establish a company, which was successful enough to provide these families with homes, food etc. They made it with their knowledge, will, effort and hard work. Despite being refugees in their own country (which is a paradox, right?). Not because they were white, not because they had more money (they had not) or any other "privileges". So - my 'privileges', did not just appeared out of the blue, because I'm white. They are the result if my father's and mother's efforts. Had they thrown this chance away - I wouldn't have any of this. No matter how white I am.

And this is just one, not very well telling example.

Yes, living in the more or less modern environment has it's benefits, but this has nothing to do with 'white privilege'.

[TheGirondin]

>You have a indoor plumbing and electricity and always-on internet, correct? You eat three squares a day, right?

So does everyone in America, regardless of race or class.

> Most software developers easily make it into the world's top 5%, if not the top 1%.

I am the only upper middle-class member of my entire extended family. The rest are all lower-middle, blue collar workers - the kind people like you want to kick to the curb with open borders.

[kj01a]

>Everywhere around you. You have a indoor plumbing and electricity and always-on internet, correct? You eat three squares a day, right? In global terms, you are likely to be quite wealthy

These things are true of every black male, white woman, hispanic woman, asian male, etc... I've ever met. So do all of those demographics also have white male privilege?

[labster]

Then you need to meet more people, for sure. You're so wealthy that you don't even know what poverty looks like.

No comment on whether any demographics enjoy white male privilege. It was just a comment on the fact that the wealth of hackers are literally everywhere around us, but we apparently can't have a discussion about it without descending into who has privilege.

[kj01a]

>You're so wealthy that you don't even know what poverty looks like.

I mean, knowing what poverty is and experiencing it are two different things. Of course, I've lived out of my car, so it's possible both apply to me... And even then I had access to all the things you talk about by stepping into a goddamned McDonald's. I would have gone to a shelter of some kind, but none of them let me in because I am a white male.

> but we apparently can't have a discussion about it without descending into who has privilege.

"You disputed my claim about privilege, therefore we can't have a discussion about privilege."

[labster]

> "You disputed my claim about privilege, therefore we can't have a discussion about privilege."

Heh, true that. One point to you, sir.

[flukus]

Every one around me gets those advantages, regardless of skin color.

The real lesson to take away from Trump's win is that there are a lot of people finding it increasingly hard to keep that water running and electricity on. Job security has disappeared and underemployment is a huge problem.

[qb45]

This is what you get for living in place where people built it, not for your race.

[Chris2048]

> In global terms

American white guilt appears to me to be of national scope.