[erikbye]

It is often said that Huxley's Brave New World prediction was more accurate than Orwell's 1984, but Orwell actually got the boot-stomping-your-face prediction right: even peaceful protests are met with full riot gear and ends being peaceful as soon as that first baton-swing hits someone's skull. Police murdering unarmed citizens with their arms raised. The mass imprisonment of citizens who's only committed what most people consider a minor offense.

[eevilspock]

Aldous Huxley vs George Orwell:

http://www.anorak.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/huxley-or...

(The creator, Stuart McMillen, felt compelled to remove it from his own website. He explains: http://www.stuartmcmillen.com/blog/cartoon-blog/amusing-ours...)

[cortesoft]

Are you saying that peaceful protests in the US are met with baton-swings to the skull? That seems veritably untrue; there have been a large number of protests recently that have not ended in any violence.

[zanny]

The Dakota Pipeline protestors have been getting maced and tear gassed this past week. There are also reports of protestors being locked in dog cages[1].

[1]: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/11/0...

[cortesoft]

Yes, but there have been many other protests that did NOT end in violence.

[mzw_mzw]

The Dakota Pipeline protesters were actually shooting at cops, and committed millions of dollars worth of arson.

[zanny]

The Sioux tribe and other protestors claim he was a plant by the oil company to intentionally turn public opinion against the protestors[1].

[1]: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/dakota-access-pipeline-s...

That, and the other incidences of protestors using firearms is something anyone managing a protest of this scale cannot control. As long as the leadership involved condemns the gun violence, and the protestors do what they can to stop people from escalating the situation, they cannot be themselves in the wrong.

It is a very common tactic to plant radicals in peaceful protests who will use violence as an attempt to ruin the reputation of the movement, mainly by distraction - "oh, someone shot at the police, they are all violent monstrous scum now, and nobody should listen to their grievances anymore" was used constantly during the occupy protests, and many of those offenders were later found to be plants by either private or even police agencies to break up the protests and destroy their message.

[rixed]

Sadly you have to have been a protester at least once to know that, otherwise you just cannot believe how prevalent (and effective) this tactic is.

[mzw_mzw]

It sure is odd how these evil tools of the Man are never identified and flushed out by the noble, gentle, peaceful protesters before they start committing arson and shooting cops. Nobody noticed that these agents provocateurs were carrying guns? Nobody went up to them while they were getting ready to burn millions of dollars of equipment -- something which requires a lot more effort than just tossing a match -- and said "hey, don't do that, we're all about peace"? The pipeline protesters knew damn well they had bad apples, and they did nothing about it.

[mzw_mzw]

I wonder if you were this generous towards the Bundy Ranch protesters.

[humanrebar]

> even peaceful protests are met with full riot gear and ends being peaceful as soon as that first baton-swing hits someone's skull

...except the police officers murdered in Dallas this year didn't wear riot gear on purpose and the violence started when a sniper started shooting officers. Some crazy person executed two officers in Iowa three days ago.

I'm not advocating riot gear, but there are holes in your narrative.

[TazeTSchnitzel]

A police officer or two killed says nothing about police brutality.

[humanrebar]

It says a lot actually. Police officers are humans who want to go home to their kids. Hence the riot gear. We can blame them for being too fearful, but we can also recognize that they have reasons to be afraid.

These reasons don't fit into "because The Man" narratives without some explanation.

[TazeTSchnitzel]

Humans who are vastly over-prepared for the threat they face.

They're not fighting a war, and acting like they are only increases popular resentment.

How does can an officer covered head to toe in riot gear, carrying military equipment, jumping out of an armored vehicle, engage with the community?

[ahartman00]

"A police officer or two killed" ...

"Humans who are vastly over-prepared for the threat they face"

Again, these are people who want to go home to their families.

"acting like they are only increases popular resentment"

Valid point. But the riot gear itself was a reaction to throwing stones or molotov cocktails. Sniper fire appears to be a reaction to the riot gear...

"How does can an officer covered head to toe in riot gear, carrying military equipment, jumping out of an armored vehicle, engage with the community?"

Valid point. Lets ask a similar question. How can a protester throwing stones or shooting people engage with the institutions they are trying to change?

[TazeTSchnitzel]

> "A police officer or two killed" ...

> "Humans who are vastly over-prepared for the threat they face"

> Again, these are people who want to go home to their families.

I said “or two” for a reason. Vastly more civilians are killed by police than vice-versa.

> Valid point. But the riot gear itself was a reaction to throwing stones or molotov cocktails.

Reaction or not, it's not appropriate in many situations where it's deployed.

> How can a protester throwing stones or shooting people engage with the institutions they are trying to change?

They are a tiny minority of protestors.

[diyorgasms]

The police act almost as an occupying force in some communities. It does not surprise me in the few instances where they are resisted like they are an occupying force.

[wtbob]

> even peaceful protests are met with full riot gear and ends being peaceful as soon as that first baton-swing hits someone's skull.

Is it more likely that a police baton ends the peace, or a protester's stone? Is riot gear offensive in nature, or do the police wear it to defend themselves from violent attack?

> Police murdering unarmed citizens with their arms raised.

While that has certainly happened, you are referring to Michael Brown, who did not, in fact, have his arms raised and was, in fact, beating the police officer who shot him.

> The mass imprisonment of citizens who's only committed what most people consider a minor offense.

I suspect you blame Drug Prohibition (and I agree that it should end immediately), but that's not actually true: http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/releasing-drug-offenders-...

Looking at what people actually go to prison for, it often seems like stuff we'd want to send people to prison for: murder, assault, theft, rape, fraud. Maybe we might look at why Americans commit so much murder, assault, theft, rape and fraud?

[dmoy]

I was assuming he was talking about Philando Castile, who was shot to death while putting his hands up.

[wtbob]

That is definitely a much greyer case at the moment; I'm looking forward to the results of the investigation. It definitely sounds bad.