[jeffdavis]

I prefer freedom, but freedom comes with responsibility for your choices. That means no subsidized or free health care when you make poor choices.

Conversely, that is why socialism inherently limits freedom. As soon as I am responsible for your "needs" (health, food, childcare), I will start demanding that you make choices I feel are good ones (good diet, productive career so you can provide for yourself, good family planning choices, etc.).

[jmedwards]

Define a poor choice.

Would that be a job that circumstantially for all intents and purposes requires you to sit down for 8+ hours a day. Is that a poor choice? Would that take away my healthcare subsidy?

Is playing American Football, or kickboxing a similarly poor choice?

Would - and here's where I get facetious in a hope of highlighting the issue with the way you raise your choices/free healthcare point - knowingly continuing the pregnancy of a child with Downs Syndrome be regarded as a poor choice?

Finally, who decides?

[jeffdavis]

This is exactly my point. When Sally has to pay the consequences for Joe's choices, she will have her own ideas about what Joe should do, and try to force him to do so using her vote.

This turns ordinary differences of opinion or culture into political fights.

If Sally doesn't have to pay for Joe's poor choices, Joe can figure out for himself what he feels is best, and that's called freedom.

[jrs235]

> Define a poor choice.

Smoking cigarettes.

[psyc]

If you're the kind of person who feels entitled to tell others what to do to begin with. I'm perfectly happy to pay taxes so everyone can have socialized health care, and to stay out of other people's choices.

[jeffdavis]

The more one pays for the choices of others, the more they feel entitled to be influence those choices.

If the health care costs keep going up, and/or they start rationing/queueing, that may have a big enough impact on you that you change your opinion.

Even if you keep your opinion, when you vote for socialism you are voting to force everyone to pay for Joe's poor choices. They might not be so generous.

If you want to just pay into a no-strings-attached social fund, and not force everyone else, that would preserve freedom.