[Analemma_]

Are people liking the latest season of Black Mirror? I'm only three episodes in and haven't yet gotten to San Junipero, which everyone says is the really good one, but so far I've been a little disappointed. This might be regression to the mean, since I felt that the first six episodes were six home runs in a row and it must be tough to keep a streak like that going, but so far season 3 seems to have lost something.

I loved the first two seasons because they felt like intelligent, worrying criticisms of futurism, social media and technology, whereas usually when television tries to do that it's eye-rolling and cringe-worthy. But so far season 3 feels like the Sorkin-esque Boomer slop that I loved the first two seasons for not being. What do other people think?

[unfunco]

To me, the third episode (Shut up and dance) is the outstanding episode, at the end I was mentally exhausted and incredibly saddened. San Junipero is different, without ruining things, it's the only episode where at the end, I wasn't considering the "where" that we're heading towards as a society (though on further thinking, it's a question of whether something good is also something moral.) – It's just very different in overall tone.

The first episode I found really difficult to watch because it felt too much like real-life (Uber, especially.) – there's one episode which I didn't finish as it just didn't interest me, it was the army-type episode, I got bored incredibly quickly. The last episode (which is set on Twitter, I suppose) is incredible.

I think there were maybe too many episodes, the VR episode, whilst good, just felt like filler to me, though it made me phone my mother. I'll watch the fourth season, it's still one of the better shows on television.

[tintor]

> there's one episode which I didn't finish as it just didn't interest me, it was the army-type episode, I got bored incredibly quickly.

"Men Against Fire" was the most disturbing episode of the season. Army with AR implants for zero-empathy ethnic cleansing.

[tptacek]

There was a trailer a few years back with a bunch of 20-something white gamer dudes in some kind of dystopian future gamer den playing a CoD style shooter, which was in reality --- well, the same plot twist as "Men Against Fire". I thought (a) the trailer was much more evocative than the Man Against Fire episode, and (b) that it was possible that "Man Against Fire" borrowed its idea from that trailer.

Later

Found it! Uncanny Valley:

https://vimeo.com/147365861

I think this is both more plausible and more disturbing than "Men Against Fire". Also: the twist is less apparent --- for most of "Uncanny Valley" (if I'm remembering it clearly), you're not entirely sure whether it's a comment about how games generate dissipation the same way drugs do. "Men Against Fire" is predictable from about minute 10 (after the farm house scene).

Another "Black Mirror" problem I have: the episodes are way too long. "San Junipero" is the only one --- of all the seasons, I think! --- that earned its running length.

[pluma]

Both UV and the BM episode strongly reminded me of an Outer Limits (I think?) episode about a perpetual war between humans and aliens in some underground cave. The reveal is pretty similar to that in Men Against Fire, except the justification is different.

[tempestn]

Haven't seen either of these yet, but the way you're describing them it sounds very reminiscent of Ender's Game too.

[krabpaaltje]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hearts_and_Minds_(The_Outer_Li...

[pluma]

Yes, that's the one. Thanks for looking that up.

[nickpsecurity]

Still haven't watched Black Mirror yet. The Uncanny Valley thing was really good. I think it's a plausible scenario at some point with it likely being UAV's first given they have less detail to begin with. Reminds me of a particular scene in Enders Game that ended up being my favorite since it was all around awesome. Wonder if that was the inspiration.

[ddorian43]

I thought he was gonna turn into them District-9 style.

[tedunangst]

Then again, if episodes were 10 minutes each, I'm not sure I could handle watching for an hour. One story per "time slot" feels about right.

[devonkim]

It got the dichotomy right - the solution for horrible things like PTSD also turned out to be justifying continuation of a horrific crime in its own right. The balance of how technology is amoral and how we use it as a society and for what agendas is illustrated in one of the better ways in this specific episode. The problem I had with the episode is similar to my complaint with all of season 3 - unnecessarily slow pacing and repetition. I'm not seeing the artistic reasons for repeating the same tired gestures in, say, the first episode unless they're more sentimental kind of episodes like San Junipero.

The morality lessons that the Twilight Zone oftentimes preached are manifested more as debates in Black Mirror with season 3, which I think is a lot tougher to write successfully. What is a bit of a letdown is that the debates are mostly contemporary (PTSD wasn't even a term when the Twilight Zone was airing) and will date this specific episode heavily. Meanwhile, most of what I watched in the Twilight Zone is still very relevant from even a thought experiment perspective.

I think I developed a lot more critical thinking watching Twilight Zone episodes as a child than anything I had to read in school.

[XorNot]

Um, how would PTSD "date" an episode? The clinical term may be recent but it's not going to go away and it didn't just start - see reports of shellshock from WW1.

[devonkim]

PTSD being such a big and publicized topic is the difference today than from past wars. The topic of ethnic cleansing actually happening wasn't even a thought until years following WW2. The politics of war were pervasive in media much more than the conditions and microscopic effects upon those that are on the frontlines (all those war movies didn't exactly paint as grim of a picture as it was though thanks to pro-war sentiment by US leadership for decades).

[lostlogin]

>The topic of ethnic cleansing actually happening wasn't even a thought until after WW2.

"Who, after all, speaks today of the annihilation of the Armenians."

[watt]

It's actually "genetic cleansing", if I understood the exposition right. Same like with "Shut up and dance", this twist a provides believable reason why some think what's going on is actually justifiable.

[unfunco]

I might try it again, it got to the point where they were visiting the man that was a sympathiser and I switched off. It felt a bit like Starship Troopers (that isn't bad I suppose) but I just wasn't captivated at the time.

[eric_h]

You most definitely missed the biggest thing about that episode. I agree it started slow/boring, but it goes to 100 in the blink of an eye.

Edit: I thought I'd add that that episode did take me two tries (I fell asleep during the boring part the first time, but watched it again 'cause I had faith inspired by every other black mirror episode).

[mordocai]

You didn't even get into the meat of the episode.

Edit Note: It is a very front-heavy(not sure what word to use there) episode.

[fredsir]

Definitely watch the whole episode!

[Nydhal]

That seen reminded me of inglorious bastards beginning scene. It even has the same end where the girl runs away from the house while someone is trying to shoot at her.

[zwily]

Keep watching. Things are not what they seem.

[tdkl]

The basic idea also isn't that novel, collective dehumanizing the enemy with using LSD on soldiers was quite a popular sport some decades ago.

[wavefunction]

It didn't work with LSD though.

[alvern]

The Twitter-death-drone episode could have been a stand alone movie. Everything in that story and execution was polished and well put together. The pacing was fantastic compared to the others in the bunch.

[unfunco]

Absolutely, I thought the same thing – it was the longest of the episodes, and although you see that text message at the end, it's still open-ended – it might be the first episode that could be revisited at some point?

[devonkim]

The moral message was lost it seems - the viewer's gut reaction to persecute the supposed antagonist now is part of the critique. Wishing for his death despite his deeds is not necessarily justice and a failure to understand his motives. Is it any better we judge and execute in secret than in public?

[alextheparrot]

I've been having difficulty rating my uber drivers lately, given that I feel like I'm being pushed into participating much like the characters in the show. Seeing the "I can't drive if my rating is below 4.7" signs doesn't help either.

"Shut up and dance" was definitely my favorite episode of the seasons for the emotions you listed.

[unfunco]

I've just finished watching the "Men Against Fire" episode, due to feedback, to me; it's still the weakest of the bunch, but probably because it seems the most implausible, every episode of Black Mirror previously has made me question my own black mirror, and whether it's a good or bad decision to own one. This episode specifically is too detached from my own day to day choices to have had the impact it's meant to have, and I know about and have read in detail about eugenics (which is what I think this episode is alluding to) – but to me, it's the most unrealistic, and that's why I've made my decision.

It reminded me of Die Jugend Marschiert though: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLHFN6ynLgg

[xenobioticants]

Eugenics are not evil and would rid the world of many terrible, terrible hereditary diseases. However, the way to get it out of humanity should be done by the 'soft' way, not with violence.

[lostlogin]

I understood eugenics to be defined by a push to get desired people to reproduce more and undesirable ones to reproduce less? This seems quite different to things like gene testing and embryo selection which aren't as easily abused.

[xenobioticants]

Those things are equivalent, only in the first case you do it retroactively instead of proactively. Hell, if gene modification becomes advanced enough you could even let people with hereditary diseases just reproduce and 'edit' the created embryo so it doesn't have said hereditary genes.

[lostlogin]

It's not quite like this but people with Huntingdon's can have embryos tested and healthy ones implanted so that their kids don't have Huntingdon's. This Nature article describes the process in 2002. www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v10/n10/full/5200865a.html

[lsh123]

The "army" episode is actually a very good one. Also VR and government/army way of doing things. The ending is really not what I expected though.

[vadym909]

its boring right until before the end. Worth it to stick around if you haven't read the plot

[cm3]

I don't know if it's US production influence, but seasons 1 and 2 plus the bonus holiday episode were, compared to season 3, raw and felt more real. If I had to explain it, I'd say it's because it was a pure British production. I really hoped after the bad 1st episode that it would get better, but it didn't achieve the same positive effect as the previous seasons.

That said, if the content of season 3 manages to push some of the concerns outlined into the general public's perception and highlights them, then it's a good thing and well achieved.

The thing that stuck and was funniest for me was from the worst episode (ep 1) about the adapter and planned obsolescence.

Since San Junipero is mentioned here positively, I should add that it didn't work for me and seemed like ep 1 just too long for the content, but that's a subjective thing I guess. I kinda found it uninteresting and boring and honestly the ideas brought forward not crazy or exciting. Maybe it's because having lived in the tech world, the concepts are just as old as the availability electricity or even anyone who watched the matrix or read the mangas it's based on would find it "old".

Playtest reminded of the No End House creepypasta.

My favorite episode, despite the plot flaws, was Hated in the Nation, and that one almost saved the season. In light of InternetOf*, it was the episode I enjoyed the most.

[soneca]

The first episode is the very worst of the whole serious. "Fan-fiction" level of writing. Everything so obvious with tired tropes. A critique to social media that could be done by an imaginative high school kid.

The other ones are good, interesting and worth watching. Although only San Junipero is great.

Edit: Shut up and dance is great too.

[the_af]

Really? I liked the first episode. What I think is the absolute worst (of all Black Mirror, I'd say!) is the second episode, Playtest. It's embarrassingly bad, completely amateurish, not really scary, too drawn out and with dodgy SFX and a weak premise.

I also didn't like Shut Up & Dance much. To me it felt like a weaker "White Rabbit", and much of the episode hinges on a single plot twist at the end (much like White Rabbit, but that one was better executed).

I liked San Junipero. I liked that it has a different, unexpected tone from the rest. I liked that it was kind-hearted, for a change. Haven't watched the rest of the season yet.

Just my opinions, of course.

[knowaveragejoe]

I have to say I felt the opposite. E1 felt incredibly hamfisted, really pushing the whole "everyone is constantly on their phones and obsespsed with Internet reputation", when in my own life I have observed the pendulum actually swinging the other direction away from that trend which, in my experiences, peaked towards the end of the 2000 decade.

E2 on the other hand was quite good. I did not find the SFX to be bad at all - and that itself far removed from what made the episode great.

[the_af]

Yes, I didn't say I loved it, I just liked it. Though in my experience the trend still goes on, with everyone around me on facebook and constantly checking their phones. That said, Black Mirror is about extremes, not necessarily about how things are now.

[rhizome]

Interesting about "Playtest," did you see "10 Cloverfield Lane?" Same director.

[the_af]

Not yet, but my friends spoiled the plot for me. I know enough about it to think I'd probably like it. I'll probably watch it even knowing the plot.

There's nothing in Playtest that's similar to 10 Cloverfield Lane. It really has no redeeming qualities.

[jen729w]

Oh god. That movie.

I watched the trailer on a flight. Looked great. Started the film.

Turns out the only action in the entire movie is what they showed in the trailer. I thought it was deathly boring.

[skciva]

You think that was a worse episode than the first episode of the series? Or The Waldo Moment?

I really think Black Mirror is suffering from the Internet hype machine. If you never saw the show and only read the buzz online you'd think the first 2 seasons were masterclass and this one was a disaster..I thoroughly enjoyed all 3 seasons and thought some episodes were stronger than others but there was no large change in quality between seasons.

[ashark]

What's wrong with S1E1? It's structurally different enough from later episodes that I'd probably not make it the first episode I showed someone to introduce them to the series, but IMO it's solid.

[rhizome]

I agree. I think it's always been good and it might even be getting better.

[soneca]

I actually think S1E1 is very good. And had some fun with The Waldo.

[_v7gu]

I believe you'd like this Community episode. It's the same subject, but with a better view

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3278596/

[ashark]

> The first episode is the very worst of the whole serious. "Fan-fiction" level of writing. Everything so obvious with tired tropes. A critique to social media that could be done by an imaginative high school kid.

It was as much as 10 minutes too long and something was wrong with the editing, like they didn't have enough good meaty shots to fill out some kind of required run time so the editor had to hold shots too long. Then there was the climactic scene where they kept repeating similar shots and beats over and over for what felt like forever, like the story's needle was dislodged and skipping. That was a mess and killed the remaining investment I had in the story. There were also several important but very flatly filmed scenes of dialog that made the acting come off as weak (I think it was the editing/shot choice and not the actors, though). My least favorite episode by far, replacing The Waldo Moment, which was then bumped one notch higher again by the soldiers/VR episode later, which had several (maybe too many) decent ideas and an interesting world but needed a couple more passes on the script.

Other four were really good. San Junipero might be my favorite episode of the series.

[EDIT] I've just checked Wikipedia and S3E1 is the only episode that Brooker didn't write or co-write, just a "story by" with the teleplay by two other people (from Parks & Rec). Maybe that's where the trouble started.

[soneca]

Well, maybe it is about some expectations alignement problem. If I had started to watch not as "food for thought" story with twists, but expecting a simple satire and enjoying more the humor, I would have appreciated it more.

[gone35]

"Fan-fiction" level of writing. Everything so obvious with tired tropes. A critique to social media that could be done by an imaginative high school kid.

Funny: that's exactly what I think about the whole series. I have (guiltily) watched all three seasons with anticipation, and I still don't really see what the big deal is.

But then de gustibus non est disputandum, so that's just me.

[knowaveragejoe]

If you're a seasoned scifi reader then you'll see most of the twists coming and be aware of most of the tropes. The show relies on slowly unveiling the various concepts over the course of the episodes.

[josu]

I don't think this comment should be downvoted. While I did enjoy this episode, it does stand out in the series. While there is certainly some dark humor throughout the series, this one is straight out dark comedy, from beginning to end. AFAIK it is also the only one not written by Charlie Brooker, thus the fanfiction feel that soneca talks about.

[unfunco]

Sorry to comment again, but you mentioned "six home runs in a row" – there's also a Christmas special called "White Christmas" – if you haven't seen it already, is also one of the better episodes, starring the main guy from Mad Men (Jo(h?)n Hamm?)

[bluetwo]

Yes, very good but doesn't seem to get the love for some reason.

The way he ties the different plots and technologies together was fantastic.

Maybe Netflix will release it for the holidays this year?

[0942v8653]

It's on US netflix already.

[bluetwo]

Cool. I looked for it when they launched the last season and couldn't find it. Would love to watch it again.

[DSteinmann]

They can only reuse the same tropes so many times. Season 3 takes most of the "mind blowing" ideas from the first series and repackages them in a weaker presentation. The first episode was a weaker repackaging of Fifteen Million Merits (intrusion of social media rankings). I think there were two rehashes of White Christmas (protagonist being in an alternate universe where time moves slowly, which is always revealed a the end of the episode). White Chrismas did this much more effectively. Season 3 is just a thin shell around the same tropes.

[Namrog84]

Could it be that the first 2 seasons were British. And 3rd season is first time being British-American so that felt that revisiting popular ideas with a new spin the timing was good?

[tptacek]

And really, Fifteen Million Merits wasn't all that great either --- it was kind of all over the place narratively, and once you get the intrusive ranking trope, there's really not much more interesting about it. It felt sort of like badly plotted Vonnegut.

Again: if you haven't seen the MeowMeowBeenz episode of Community: it's a pretty good chaser to either of those episodes.

[Analemma_]

I have to disagree. Fifteen Million Merits is still my favorite episode, and what's more, I don't think it's about the intrusive ranking at all (meta-point: one of the best things about Black Mirror, IMO, is that people will often disagree on not only the quality of an episode, but what the episode was even about. That's how you know it's good).

I think the moral of that story was the inherent futility of ever rebelling against the System. Most people don't try, most who try fail, and even for the one-in-a-million who succeed, the System just instantly reconfigures itself to absorb your rebellion as part of it. Other works have done the "revolutionaries always become the new dictators" shtick, but Fifteen Million Merits did it better because it shows that this process doesn't even require a villain (like in, say, Animal Farm). Everyone in that episode, even the Simon Cowell stand-in, was just punching a clock and doing their job; the suppression of revolt was purely an emergent property of the system... as it usually is in real life.

It was the bleakest, most nihilist bit of television I think I've ever seen, made better by the fact that it wasn't empty "dark for dark's sake" like Twilight Zone-esque twist endings tend to be. I had to go for a walk afterward. I don't see how you can't like it... but like I said, the fact that people can disagree so profoundly is one of the show's best qualities, so I'll upvote you anyway and not hold it against you :)

[angersock]

Exactly!

The real hook wasn't the lame virtual-points Zynga oppression, it was how the main character reacted to their situation and then how the system reacted to them.

It's all ground that was covered before (and arguably better) in Network 40 years ago, but it does it well.

[tptacek]

The first episode of the new season seems like it's literally a "serious" hour-long version of the Community MeowMeowBeenz episode.

[josu]

Also, that episode was written by Rashida Jones and Michael Schur, both from The Office and Parks and Recreation.

[rhizome]

Michael Shur also played Dwight's cousin Mose.

[tptacek]

Wait, what the what? Michael Schur wrote that Black Mirror episode?

I wonder if they were literally inspired by MeowMeowBeenz.

[morgante]

And the sad thing is Community did it better.

In general, I find Black Mirror way too heavy-handed.

[josu]

I really enjoyed this season. Maybe the fact that is 6 episodes long (I spaced them out throughout a couple of weeks) made me spend more time thinking about it, than the first seasons.

I don't think that the quality has slipped. Maybe you are being too critical because it has lost its initial shock factor?

[Evolved]

Agreed. The quality is just fine. I think because of the year-plus hiatus, we, the viewers, set way too high a bar for the return of the series. This takes into consideration that even though, in my opinion, the series was on par with the first 2 seasons (discounted for initial shock value and departure from conventional sitcoms and dramas), it was still engaging enough to enjoy despite not everything being perfect.

[rhizome]

The initial shock thing, I agree, and also backlash inflation.

[AlwaysRock]

To me it feels like all the subtly is gone. What would have not been explained in the first two seasons is spelled out in the third season. It got a whole lot less interesting or engaging.

[extr]

Completely agree. The first two seasons had more of an "unexpected consequences" vibe. I never got the feeling they were trying to lecture me, I just left wondering "Hmm, I wonder how I would react if this was the reality of the world?". I've only watched 3 episodes of S3 so far (1, 2 and 5), but I couldn't help but feel like they were all drawn out and beat the viewer over the head with the message. At one point in E1 a main character literally explains to the viewer what is going on. And E5 was particularly bad. There was a very interesting point to be made on the realities of genetic screening and they just barely touched on it.

[the_af]

Watch San Junipero (episode 4) then. I don't think that one is a lecture. It's also not a pessimistic episode, somewhat surprising for Black Mirror.

[skciva]

Honestly the only subtle episodes I can think of pre-season 3 are White Bear and White Christmas.

I'd love a discussion on why you (or others) think otherwise.

[nandemo]

I started watching S1E1 after having watched a couple of other episodes from season 2 and 3. I quit watching it halfway. Not sure what was subtle about it. Honestly if it was the first episode I'd watched, I'd probably have written off the whole show altogether.

[mdemare]

I started with S1E1, quit watching it halfway, and have written it off. Should I reconsider?

[AlwaysRock]

S1E1 feels like an entirely different show. It doesnt really show near future tech it just shows something that could happen today. Try the rest of the first season. Very worth re approaching.

[elevensies]

I found a few of the idea repetitive to season 1 and 2, I haven't finished all episodes but I like 6 the most so far, because it presented a novel threat. And similarly and more immediately you could imagine [SPOILERISH HINTS BEYOND] a self-driving car virus that would use facial recognition to create an assassination capable vehicle botnet. Episode #2 has implications of simulated torture which is interesting but has already been treated a few times.

[jeff_petersen]

The only episodes that even came close to making me feel like the older episodes did were "Playtest" and "Men against Fire," but even they're not up to par.

I think San Junipero is widely overrated, the pacing is awful and it isn't terribly thought provoking.

They've peaked, the high point was the Jon Hamm special episode and now it's over.

[gm-conspiracy]

I feel the last season offers a different perspective than the others (excluding San Junipero - which is similar to the first two seasons).

The first two seasons are about a hypothetical future any person could experience (society).

The last season is from the perspective of an individual's very specific circumstances (except for San Junipero).

Society versus the individual?

I liked the ending of the first episode of Season 3 (freedom achieved), episode 2 was more horror than scifi (a la "Brainscan"), episode 3 could have been a subplot in a single episode of Mr. Robot, episode 4 was more like the first two seasons, episode 5 was some nazi-esque Verhoeven-wannabe hegemony meh, and episode 6, to me, was like episode 2, more horror scifi.

[javajosh]

No, you're not the only one. More and more it seems the show is about people using technology in the cruelest possible way against each other. It's The Outer Limits with less range and more smartphones.

[pluma]

Honestly? Season 3 seemed the weakest of the bunch but I feel that the final episode made up for the rest. And even a weak Black Mirror episode is still pretty decent if you don't hold it up to the ridiculous standards that seasons 1 and 2 set for the show.

[danso]

I've only watched episodes 2, 3, and 6, and I agree, not particularly compelling compared to even the 3 worst episodes of the previous seasons. It's still good, but not uniquely interesting or provoking in the way that past seasons have been.

[knowaveragejoe]

I have not seen 6, but of 2 and 3, 2 is especially good and I don't really see any parallels between it and the first two seasons.

[AcerbicZero]

I watched 2 or 3 episodes in this latest season, and they were solid, but a little predictable. Significantly better than the 1st season, which beyond the shock factor of the first episode, was pretty much blah.

[1123581321]

Many people think the third episode of the first season is the best of the series. It is the one I recommend people view first.

[the_af]

Fully agreed! "The Entire History of You" is when I realized Black Mirror was great. Such an interesting episode -- more about human behavior than about tech, really.

For some reason I also liked the episode's title itself; to me it sounds like a name Neil Gaiman would come up with.

[stefantalpalaru]

> Are people liking the latest season of Black Mirror?

Yes, it's a good one.

> San Junipero, which everyone says is the really good one

Average, by my standards. They had a great premise and all they did with it was tell a love story.

The really good episodes are S03E01 for taking the quantification of social status to an extreme, S03E05 for an interesting take on the banality of evil and S03E06 for managing to be annoyingly moralizing and very well done at the same time.

> I loved the first two seasons because they felt like intelligent, worrying criticisms of futurism, social media and technology

Same here, except S01E01 that had none of those qualities and nothing in common with the rest of the series. If that bland and silly social critique was the basis on which the network ordered an entire season, it was a small miracle.

[aaron695]

Fifteen Million Merits S01E02

"everyone must cycle on exercise bikes in order to power their surroundings"

[mei0Iesh]

I found no value in the first two seasons. It's been on the front page of HN at least 4 times in the past couple weeks. I tried watching the third season hoping it was better. It's still stupid. It's like they just take some very plain 1:1 observation about exactly how the world is right now, focus on one specific demographic, then create a skit around it that has no depth. They create imaginary worlds, but they're not very imaginative. They're basically exactly the world we're in, but they replace a few things with something slightly different. It's like science fiction for people who don't really like science fiction.

It's shallow intellectually, but it doesn't even have any depth emotionally. At least with most other popular TV shows there's depth in terms of personal relationships. There's drama that's more emotionally interesting. Black Mirror seems to be optimized for people who are blunted both in terms of intellect and social emotion. It's one of the most boring TV series on Netflix, which is a shame because there's not much else that even attempts to be interesting in a more sci-fi way.

I think the only reason why people find value in Black Mirror must be because of references. Like how they love jokes on Reddit when they refer to something they all know. People must be like, "Ahaha, they're referencing how people are always on their phones. So true. LOL look, it's trollface!! Dude, look, trollface is on TV. I know trollface. Haha this show is great." What else would people be getting out of it?

[rezashirazian]

I'm not sure if we've been watching the same show. I finished watching the first season this week, and Black Mirror does an amazing job of building characters and forming relationships in a short amount of time.

It does this well because the science fiction elements of the show are not the focus. They are merely instruments for driving very human narratives.

When you say It's shallow intellectually, but it doesn't even have any depth emotionally. At least with most other popular TV shows there's depth in terms of personal relationships. There's drama that's more emotionally interesting. I wish you would use an example so I can understand where you're coming from since I find myself completely on the other side of your comment.