[wyager]

This "switch from mac" furor is hilarious to me. In 3 years people will be saying "Remember how upset people were getting about losing the escape key?". This feels the same as Apple not supporting flash or microsd cards on iPhones. Everyone made a big stink about it at the time, and a few years down the road flash is dead and no one cares about microsd cards. It will be the same with USB C and dongles; in a few years everything will be on USB C anyway.

[bitL]

Can't wait to try debugging on a touch bar and needing to look at the bar if I am indeed touching the right operation. I don't want to end up with a remapping where I need to press Fn + number to get Fxy function key. Better IMO would have been if every Fxy key had its own customizable OLED/e-ink display; then I would be "awesomed" by this innovation. Even with a separate touch bar on top of it. All real DJs use proper external controllers anyway and the bigger the better, nobody is going to DJ like that poor guy during Apple demo...

[Jtsummers]

I would like both the touch bar AND the function keys, but the touch bar will be more versatile than just OLED/e-ink displays on top of keys. You can actually use it as a slider. You get more surface area to display controls. You can offer something more than just a symbol for the controls. I don't know how well it'll work (none of us do, it's not shipped and reviewed yet, not fully at least). But the potential for many applications is there.

[bitL]

As an addition to Fxy keys I am fine with it. Replacing Fxy keys like what Lenovo did to their X1 Carbons with their "Adaptive keyboard" ended up angering too many developers (though to be honest it was also Windows/Lenovo SW issue as you had to do some registry hacks to add apps that were supposed to use active keyboard and this ended up super inconsistent). Also, some people say touch bar is a poor man's touchscreen as by adding touchscreen you won't need a touch bar and it would be more flexible (though I prefer my screen without fingerprints everywhere).

[Jtsummers]

Well, even adding a touch screen still requires a redesign of applications. Buttons need to be larger, interfaces need to be designed for touch screen. macOS isn't targeted towards that (yet, I feel Apple's anti-PC touchscreen statements are too strong as it's an inevitable development). Consequently, the interface would be, alien. I've used Windows tablets (Windows 7), with a pen input device. It works, but it's awkward. Even if they'd had an iPad-quality capacitive input for fingers, with non-touch screen apps it would still be awkward. That's the same experience I'd anticipate using a touch screen with today's macOS and apps.

They need to layout a roadmap for this development, rather than dropping the hardware in without the software to support it. Chicken and egg problem.

[mcintyre1994]

One reason this feels different is the pricing bump, which I didn't think would be a big deal until I read theverge's review earlier today [0]. They spent the entire time talking about the low-end model, and entirely dismiss everything with the touch bar as "the price for those models is really quite silly right now." Given that low end model is intentionally crippled with only 2 USB-C ports it's not great that the reaction is to dismiss the rest.

[0] http://www.theverge.com/2016/11/2/13490774/apple-macbook-pro...

[brazzledazzle]

For that price I expected more than 16GB of RAM or at least the option to increase it. I've heard that it may be Intel's fault but it's frustrating to be limited to the same amount of memory I have on this Mac purchased 3 years ago.