[narag]

There are people whose labor is worth $8/hr but not $11/hr.

You seem to think value and price are the same thing and both can be absolutely determined. Also it sounds weird to talk about people's labor as if they were potatoes, while you assert that minimum wage will result in them not having a job as if it's a nature law.

I'd try to reason with you, but it seems we're not in the same world anyway.

[godd2]

> I'd try to reason with you, but it seems we're not in the same world anyway.

Claiming that I'm too unreasonable to debate with won't win you any points.

> Also it sounds weird to talk about people's labor as if they were potatoes

It's not weird since it's something that has a market value. People are not their labor. Someone's labor can be bought and sold, and the availability and price of labor is subject to the same economic laws as potatoes.

Some potatoes are worth $0.60 but not $0.80, and if the price of potatoes were dictated to be $0.80, the $0.60 would go in the trash.

I don't want potatoes or people's labor to go in the trash.

[inflagranti]

>> I'd try to reason with you, but it seems we're not in the same world anyway.

> Claiming that I'm too unreasonable to debate with won't win you any points.

It did with me... Seriously, I think you misconstrued this statement as a personal attack, whereas IMHO its simply used to highlight the flaw in your logic: If we have a complex system where A implies B and B implies C and C implies D and so on which possibly goes back to A in subtle ways, but you're just saying "A implies B, B implies no A, hence this won't work, QED" you are assuming a very simplistic view of reality.

You cannot just stop at one step and draw a definite conclusion from that. As pointed out, the wage increase can be rolled over to a price increase for instance, instead of now having to fire everyone. I'm not saying that no loss of labor could occur, but definitely it's only one of many possibilities and the economy is a highly complex system with all kind of direct and indirect effects that are at play here.

All that said, I would actually argue for basic income than a minimum wage as it will completely eliminate the possibility of the labor loss resulting in a wage loss, but in absence of this, minimum wage seems still better than having an increasing amount of working poor.

[tcbawo]

Some have argued that skilled labor actually benefits the most from a minimum wage increase (can't find a citation offhand). This is caused by wage inflation as employers must increase compensation to retain workers.

I'm trying to understand your potato metaphor. The US government has a long history of setting a price floor beneath agricultural products.

[woodpanel]

Let me try it: Saying that my labor isn't worth $11/hr surely doesn't sound nice to me. But the intentions of saying that to me are making a huge difference. If you're just being mean, begrudging, racist or otherwise inhumane - offense is duly taken. But there can be a compassionate intention too. Denying that this intention could exist, leaves me believing the world is against me instead of actively acquiring working skill.

Coming from the other side of $8/hr I can assure you that you'll had so much inhumanity coming at you, you will very likely recognize the true intentions.* Looking back, I cannot thank the moments of compassionate harshness enough and could almost get angry at those denying these moments exist. Instead I say to them: It's easy to wear those rose-colored glasses if you don't have to live with its repercussions.

* granted, this works well on a personal level, maybe not so well if it comes out as a political press release

[narag]

It seems that you misunderstood me, probably my fault. It's not a question of humanity. Treating labor just like any other good is terribly naive. How economy works is much more complex since good salaries feed the demand while a huge mass of poor people near the level of societal exclusion will cause unrest and problems for everybody. See Venezuela, not so long ago one of the richest countries of the subcontinent. It's in the best interest of middle classes to have a decent social net, specially considering you never know what the future holds for yourself.