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by tylerwhipple 3527 days ago
What happens if they find her guilty after she is elected?
3 comments

> What happens if they find her guilty after she is elected?

If it's before she takes office, Obama could pardon her. Would be a smear on the end of his legacy but might a Nixon/Ford style situation to take the personal hit and move the country forward.

If it's after she takes office, most likely impeachment or resignation. It'd be very difficult govern as the chief executive if the country and world sees you as a convicted criminal. Depending on how that plays out, Kaine would most likely take over.

Obama pardoning Hillary would be very different than Ford's pardon of Nixon. The latter allowed a disgraced politician who had resigned to leave Washington without facing criminal prosecution. The former would allow a politician to avoid prosecution and continue to take the office of President.
> Obama pardoning Hillary would be very different than Ford's pardon of Nixon. The latter allowed a disgraced politician who had resigned to leave Washington without facing criminal prosecution. The former would allow a politician to avoid prosecution and continue to take the office of President.

Based on my take of Obama as a person, I'm pretty sure he'd require her stepping down as a condition of a pardon. Otherwise the public would question her legitimacy for four years.

Nah. He'd let her stay probably. Obama would show up on Saturday Night Live with Hillary and do something quirky. Boom. Nothing but net!
She cannot be "convicted" of anything so long as she's in office. She would have to be impeached and removed from office (or resign) before she could actually stand trial for whatever crime may have been committed.
While that's likely how it'd play out, what statute do you feel precludes a President from being convicted?
There is a lot of historical precedent. A US President can generally claim immunity to everything except an impeachment. Regardless of laws, you'd never find someone capable of arrest the US President. Secret service would quickly fill anyone attempting to do so with bullets. Worst case scenario, the President can go hang out at a military base of which he or she has absolute authority. Good luck having the DC Police SWAT one of those.
A little googling and it turns out you are almost right. The Sergent at Arms of the US Senate can arrest anyone who violates Senate rules, including the president.

I have no idea if the emails are related enough, as I don't have voting rights in the US I see no reason to care about them.

If the democrats get the senate as predicted then she won't be impeached.
I believe the House of Representatives brings articles of impeachment, not the Senate, and the House will likely hold its Republican majority.

The Senate is only required to actually convict. It's pretty much a disaster simply to be impeached at all. No conviction is really necessary to permanently damage someone politically.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Articles_of_impeachment

> It's pretty much a disaster simply to be impeached at all.

We've only got one recent example of a President getting impeached, and it worked out pretty well for him.

One would hope that if the Clintons do set that sort of record, it won't be matched or beaten anytime soon...
Impeachment and VP becomes president?

Or personal pardon!

If you were a Republican, would you really want Tim Kaine instead of Hillary Clinton?

That would be like Democrats impeaching Bush and getting Cheney instead.

Why not? You want a truly insane person on the other side, that way at least you have a much larger target to attack.
Where are you getting Cheney?
Vampires never die. He's in a dark room somewhere, I'm sure.
That's what I was wondering too. Can't she just pardon herself?
"Can't she just pardon herself?"

Nothing explicitly prevents it. It doesn't really matter anyhow; Congress has the exclusive power to impeach. Impeachment is the mechanism the constitution provides deal with criminal presidents and the president can't block it.

Make no mistake; the last thing Comey and Clinton+Obama et al. wanted was to fill news cycles with "FBI investigation reopened" 11 days out. It's bad, whatever it is, and this is a CYA move; Comey believes he needs to be able to claim he notified Oversight and made this public prior to the election.

Possibly, but pardons don't apply to impeachment, so she could still be removed as President.
Bill Clinton was impeached, but not removed from office.
I think even our partisan, dysfunctional congress would still impeach and remove a president that choose to pardon themselves and not step down.
I only meant that they could "impeach" her over something but she could still be in office.
Then what happens? Does Tim Kaine take over?
She certainly could. That is why the power of impeachment resides with Congress.
Presidential pardons don't apply to impeachments, I believe.
Impeachment in all likelihood.
If you can garner the votes in the legislature. If a majority of the house files charges, 2/3 of the senate has to vote in favor. The house seems likely, but it will be the drama of the century to get through the senate going ahead with it, etc.

In the current climate, unless a big group of Democrats in the house side with the Republicans on the charges, it can sloughed off as partisan BS.

We'd also probably need some pretty crazy info in those emails to warrant the sharpness of public invective necessary to have a clear political mandate to go through impeachment. It would have to include some of: large scale impact to national interests, beyond-the-pale vile political conspiracy, dick pics of Bill Clinton, or a clear statement of explicit, willfully avoiding public disclosure of the topic of discussion (of particular national interest).

I see the narrative being around "sour grapes losers" and "can't win, can't govern Republicans."

it can sloughed off as partisan BS

Maybe.... but do the Democrats really want a President that is constantly questioned in terms of her ethics?

Has Clinton's ethics ever not been constantly questioned?

I think the Democrats are prepared for that much, at least.